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Bill Russell Responds to Lebron leaving him off Mt Rushmore


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#41 MoodMuzik

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:51 PM

I have the same Rushmore^^.

 

And @wormburn, there are 2 "Jordan Rules" bro.



#42 MoodMuzik

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:53 PM

It's like what they said today prior to tipoff of the OKC/LA game, basketball is a team game you should have to put up 5.

 

Russell, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird.

 

But if we're talking 4, for me it's a cloooooose Russell Jordan Magic Bird. I almost have to take Bird off for Kareem though.I keep fighting with that.



#43 KKinsey

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 02:18 PM

My Rushmore is Wade, Haslem, Alonzo and Chalmers.
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#44 DWarner4

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:22 PM

-_________________________________-

 

And that's not what the "Jordan rules" are.

Obviously the Jordan Rules was a book based on defensive principles the Detroit Piston used to neutralize MJ.

 

In essence it was force him left because he'll pull up for a low percentage shot. When he goes right he'll go to the bucket so the whole team would collapse and hammer him.

 

But the real Jordan rules was an unwritten mandate handed down from the NBA that said they weren't gonna allow Michael Jordan to be treated in such a manner by the Pistons or any other team. The way Mike was treated is a thing of Legend in itself. 

 

Once, in a game in Philly, a ref called a travel on the baseline on Mike when he tried a sneaky little move, and the crowd in Philly went off on him for calling the call against Mike, who was on the visiting team, but that's the show they came to see...Phil Jackson called a young ref over and barked at him and informed him that though it may have been the correct call, it wasn't a call you make on him... As he gestured towards MJ who was standing there shaking his head...

 

The ref got an earful from the lead ref on the job as well, and a lesson had been learned. There were rules to how they handled MJ, and then there was everybody else...

 

That's what I was referring to as the Jordan rules...

 

Today the model is different because they recognize how successful it was in the MJ experiment. As a result, we see multiple players get the Jordan rule treatment where defenders can't touch 'em or they go to the stripe copious times making it impossible for the guy not to score big, even if he has an off shooting night...

 

Interestingly, the leagues marquee player today, and equivalent player to Jordan, Lebron James, is allowed to be manhandled, thrown to the ground, tackled, and otherwise just disrespected by teams making non-basketball type plays in an effort to stop him, and the league allows it all.

 

Never has a perimeter player took more of a beating and had to suck it up. Hack a Shaq dudes? Yeah, sure they beat Shaq and Dwight worse than Bron, but they don't get beat up while they're running a 4.5 40 yard dash, or gliding through the air on a foray to the bucket...

 

So the NBA is foul for that in my mind.  Make it an even playing field and may the best man and team win. I'm not sure that's always the case...



#45 DWarner4

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 03:32 PM

My Rushmore of All Around talents would be Jordan, Bird, Magic, and James.

 

If it was All Time best dudes to represent an ideal of Multiple decades of greatness it would be Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, and James.

 

Most important guys- the real central figures... Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Bird

 

If it were guys I invested the most time and energy in individually, it would be Dr.J, Jordan, Iverson, and James...

 

So it would be hard to go wrong, but much easier if the monument included about 20 heads!



#46 HeatFanDan

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 09:24 PM

I might catch hell for this, but Magic's game never really "wowed" me. I'd go Russell or Kareem before Magic.



#47 DWarner4

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:05 PM

I might catch hell for this, but Magic's game never really "wowed" me. I'd go Russell or Kareem before Magic.

 

I feel ya...I actually started to type Oscar myself in Magics spot but the size factor, shooting ability and overall winning was hard to overlook for Johnson...

 

Isn't it a b itch trying to find just 4??

 

It made for some nice mid-season convo but Bronny was a fool for even lighting the fuse...



#48 mrwormburn

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:24 AM


 

Interestingly, the leagues marquee player today, and equivalent player to Jordan, Lebron James, is allowed to be manhandled, thrown to the ground, tackled, and otherwise just disrespected by teams making non-basketball type plays in an effort to stop him, and the league allows it all.

 

Never has a perimeter player took more of a beating and had to suck it up. Hack a Shaq dudes? Yeah, sure they beat Shaq and Dwight worse than Bron, but they don't get beat up while they're running a 4.5 40 yard dash, or gliding through the air on a foray to the bucket...

 

So the NBA is foul for that in my mind.  Make it an even playing field and may the best man and team win. I'm not sure that's always the case...

 

 

Yes and more yes! Funny you should say that, because for the second season in a row, Lebron clearly leads the NBA in PITP but is nowhere near the FTA as the top dudes.  It isn't a perfect causation, but it's a high correlation.

 

PITP: http://stats.nba.com...T&sortOrder=DES

 

FTA: http://stats.nba.com...A&sortOrder=DES

We all know you can't touch the servant...smfh.

 

Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...on_james_leads/



#49 Guest_magicmike_*

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 10:32 AM

I might catch hell for this, but Magic's game never really "wowed" me. I'd go Russell or Kareem before Magic.

 

I actually agree with you completely.  Magic had a 3rd grade level defensive game and had zero outside shot.  You always had to surround him with superior scorers, because if you throw a Jordan/Pippen/Rodman or any generation's elite defender on him, he shuts down bad.  I was watching the finals against the Bulls again the other day...he looked bad whenever Jordan was guarding him.



#50 DWarner4

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

Yes and more yes! Funny you should say that, because for the second season in a row, Lebron clearly leads the NBA in PITP but is nowhere near the FTA as the top dudes.  It isn't a perfect causation, but it's a high correlation.

 

PITP: http://stats.nba.com...T&sortOrder=DES

 

FTA: http://stats.nba.com...A&sortOrder=DES

We all know you can't touch the servant...smfh.

 

Reddit: http://www.reddit.co...on_james_leads/

 

Nice stats...

 

I'd also throw in the fact Bron is intentionally fouled more than any player in the league, with the exception of Dwight possibly, which makes it even more of an anomaly that he doesn't lead the league in free throw attempts.

 

I've never done the research, but I'd be shocked if Jordan was ever out of the top 5 in free throw attempts and probably led the league regularly. Nobody questioned it because that's the treatment superstars receive. The opposite occurs with James...

 

The league came out in the pre-season a couple years back and made the pronouncement that they weren't gonna be blowing the whistle when guys were going to the cup and yelling in an attempt to get the call. Since then James and Wade as well, have seen sharp declines in their attempts.

 

I really didn't have a problem with them saying they were gonna clean it up, but I didn't realize that it was just an announcement to clarify their position on how they were gonna be officiating the Heat alone. Because other teams just aren't officiated in the same way. Other Stars get the consistent Star treatment, not from ref to ref and game to game. Guys like Durant and Harden are barely scraped and they get to parade to that stripe.

 

In the OKC game the other day we saw Durant struggling. Like usual, doing really nothing more than pulling up long J's. Then they put him to the stripe on the bogus Norris Cole non- foul at the 3pt stripe, and he got his rhythm going like a scorer will. I think he hit like 8 or 9 points after that going like 3-3 with some more FT's thrown in...

 

This is exactly what the Heat weren't getting when they played in the Finals last year. A chance to get some rhythm going at the free throw stripe. If the Heat get their collective rhythm going as a team and Bron and DWade get to clicking, they're unbeatable. The league knows it, so they slow them down by changing how they officiate 'em... As a fan of the Heat and the game itself, it can be excruciating to watch sometimes...

 

The Heat contests are being manipulated and the more you look for signs of it the harder it is to overlook...

 

I actually agree with you completely.  Magic had a 3rd grade level defensive game and had zero outside shot.  You always had to surround him with superior scorers, because if you throw a Jordan/Pippen/Rodman or any generation's elite defender on him, he shuts down bad.  I was watching the finals against the Bulls again the other day...he looked bad whenever Jordan was guarding him.

 

Magic did lead the league in steals, something Kobe never did, yet made more all defensive 1st teams than anyone ever.

 

If you go back and look at Magics defensive numbers versus Kobes it's hard to say who was better. We know what the media told us but I'm not sold on Kobe as an elite defender. Magic's size alone made him more of an obstacle and a great deal more versatile. Magic didn't necessarily play D to stop a man, he was waiting to get that ball and go, but his IQ allowed him to do a variety of assignments at once.

 

In today's game, with Magics height, weight, and IQ, he could guard every player in the NBA.

 

As for shot, all you have to do is look at the free throw percentages and how they went up over the years.

 

I always say, that these guys didn't grow up shooting jumpers, especially 3's, so the numbers reflect it.

 

Magic won the Championship in College in 1979 and there was no 3pt line on the court. When he entered the league the next year, it was the first time he'd even had that as an option for his game, so he didn't start practicing it until then. Same with Bird. Through 5 or 6 seasons, James was a more efficient 3point shooter than Larry by the numbers. But as he acclimated his game to that stripe being out there he became a real threat...

 

The only season Magic really had where it was comparable to these youngsters today was 1990, That year he was 106 of 276 for .384%...So better than most NBA players, and about what Mario and Norris do for the Heat .. In comparison to Jordan, Magic was a great outside shooter, and by then end of Johnsons shortened career, he was a very good deep ball shooter.

 

And as for the Finals versus the Bulls, that was Magic versus Chicago. No Pat Riley, no Kareem, no sidekicks, players injured...Not a contest. BUT, Magic balled out. go back and check the digits. He averaged a triple double in that series...Something like 18, 10 and 10... Mike went berserk, but Magic was no joke himself. 

 

So I'm not sure your memory is serving you well in regards to Earvin Johnson. Winner supreme and a man with a bag of tricks, also known as basketball skills...



#51 DWarner4

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:19 PM

I wanna add this to the conversation regarding Mr. Russell, particularly as Black History Month is coming to a close.

 

In this thread I've seen multiple posts where the assertion was made that race was a factor in Russell's dominance. Or more accurately, the fact that he was playing against a bunch of White guys, as I think I read it a couple times, was brought into question.

 

Let's dispel that myth now... Here we see in 1965--  7 Black Men and 5 White Men...

 

Champs_65_66.jpg

 

Ok...

 

 And the fact of the matter is the NBA is the best organization in America when it comes to race relations and one of the better in regards to gender equity.  

 

Much of that is due to William Felton Russell.

 

Before Russell, Black athletes were only products of their athleticism, thought incapable of performing the cerebral tasks of sport by an overtly racist media and population. Russell flipped that notion on it's head quickly, as it was evident from the first sight or conversation that this was an intelligent human being, who was going to command your respect for every aspect of himself that he could control. If color was your hang-up, he couldn't control it, but he didn't condone that particular individuals ignorance either.

 

So Bill was a man of respect and understood intelligence. This is why Red Auerbach couldn't think of anyone in America better to take over his position as the Head Coach of the Boston Celtics when he stepped down. That Bill would become the first African American Head Coach in America was inconsequential to Auerbach and Russell. The fact he was a man of respect, integrity, and intelligence was everything.

 

So today as we have an NBA that is comprised of near 83% African American men, who receive on average 5 million dollars annually for their services, and a coaching fraternity that is near or over 50% minorities, we have to remain cognizant that Bill Russell is the primary benefactor to all of that...

 

Russell was the guy that much of the fate of the future of Black players and coaches was being based off of. And he proved to be an exemplary model...

 

 

 

Below is a link to a website that tracks performance of organizations, and Associations like the NCAA and NFL, NBA, MLB, etc., in regards to race matters. It sheds some light on which groups are performing up to a standard that the year 2014 should produce, and others that are still functioning at Jim Crow era levels of competency. You'll see that the NBA stands alone in terms of equity treatment...

 

The site is the brainchild of Dr. Richard Lapchick. Some of you may have seen him on Outside the Lines on Sunday on Bob Ley's piece regarding race and the use of the "N Word" in sports... The guys is a champion of civil rights for everyone and has been so since his youth. His father was the Head Coach of the New York Knicks when the league was starting to integrate Black athletes, Joe Lapchick. Joe was famous in the Black community for his gracious treatment of one of the earliest Black Pioneers, Nat 'Sweetwater' Clifton...Young Richard was schooled by his father and went on to be a civil rights activist, primarily through athletics and academics and has suffered for his admirable choices. He was once attacked in his college office at Central Florida U, and had the N word cut into his stomach by his assailants... So the guy is serious about his work...

http://www.tidesport...tdirectors.html



#52 mrwormburn

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:32 AM

Nice stats...

 

I'd also throw in the fact Bron is intentionally fouled more than any player in the league, with the exception of Dwight possibly, which makes it even more of an anomaly that he doesn't lead the league in free throw attempts.

 

 

Yeah, that's what mind-boggling and irritating!  Lebron gets 3-4 "we have to call them because he is being tackled/held/ridden/etc." calls a game and some of those translate to free throws.  With that as a base, you'd figure he would lead the league in FTA or at least be 2nd or even 3rd.



#53 MoodMuzik

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:20 AM

No way guy Harden, Durant, Love, Melo, and those boys deserve their calls way more than LBJ :rolleyes:

 

ALL THOSE GUYS shoot more jumpers than Lebron lol fff***ing ridiculous



#54 LeBronNY2014

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:24 PM

That's LeBron decision who he puts in mount rushmore. Every individual has its own prerogative so we should respect what he thinks suits best.


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