DONTRAY

★☆★☆ Republican-Democratic Debate Thread ★☆★☆

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FAIL!

 

What'd you think I expected. 

 

It's not about "failure" in this thread. It's just everyone's reason not to post in this thread regarding the topic for numerous of reasons. Thanks for your input. 

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This thread is not a failure...the debate was.

 

 

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Not to go back and forth, but 23 million viewers tuned in throughout the whole three hour airing according to CNN. Were you one of the 23 million? Or were you playing a "democratic role" and had the feeling to not tune in last night.

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Was goin' on? Didn't watch because I was occupied...

 

Nothing big. I just make threads about what's trending, but regarding the debate it was typical Trump this Trump that. Trump and the other chick that he so called criticized were goin' back and forth. More fire from the candidates in this one as it was worth watching more than the last one. It was more interesting I'll say.

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Yes, I watched the whole thing, including pre and post debate commentary.

 

Let me clarify...the "candidates" were a colossal failure. None of them came close to debating any issues that really matter. Incredible waste of time and typical Republican nonsense. They truly do not know what they are talking about.

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Yes, I watched the whole thing, including pre and post debate commentary.

 

Let me clarify...the "candidates" were a colossal failure. None of them came close to debating any issues that really matter. Incredible waste of time and typical Republican nonsense. They truly do not know what they are talking about.

 

So far who amazed you out of them all? There has to be one.  2zfogmq_zpsss1z8atr.png

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On September 19, 2015 at 11:10 AM, DONTRAY said:

Democrat! I knew it, Majestic.

 

Not at all...I'm an independent and have been for years.

 

I cannot help it if the most competent candidate decided to run for the Democratic Presidential Nomination.

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I'll bite on this...

 

The last debate on CNN was poorly moderated and that led to a less than fruitful display.

 

Sadly, the Republicans most qualified candidate is out of the race.

 

Not that any of them would be desirable, even the Dem choices leave much to be desired, but I thought Rick Perry, the Governor of Texas had the most valid resume.

 

Perry put his foot in his mouth prior to ever joining the field for this race so he was never taken seriously. I actually couldn't stand the guy myself, as he'd made racially insensitive comments more than once and his state is a leader in Black incarceration.

 

But these stats, I thought, validated him more than most; In the 8 years while Perry had Governed the State of Texas, the high school graduation rates for Black and Mexican kids went from something like 15th and 17th respectively, to 1st in both ratings.

 

I thought that was an impressive metric. If he can influence a state that's the size of 5 normal states, and has the second most population and second largest budget, to produce results like that, perhaps they could implement something similar nationally.

 

Another statistic he touted, and I assume was accurate, as they have fact checkers verify what the candidates are claiming, was that the United States had produced 1.9 million jobs over the course of 8 years. 1.5 million of those were in the State of Texas.

 

So that was meat and bones type of stuff that I can relate to. I would never have voted for Perry, or any of these candidates, but numbers that show effectiveness as a governor are a good start.

 

Ben Carson is a guy I had admired from afar. I was once able to attend a speaking event where Dr. Carson was the keynote speaker, some 15 to 20 years ago. His life story was quite impressive. His skills as a physician are unquestionable. His skills as a politician seem the opposite.

 

And he's really been promoted as the Rights way of saying that "look, here's the smartest black doctor in America and he thinks Obamas health care plan sucks too!" Pretty transparent attempt to lead the national conversation for a few months in a way that the Tea Party would endorse...Too obvious.

 

I'd assume in the end your Florida Governor will win out on the Republican side.

 

Donald Trump has a lot of money but not compared to the Koch brothers who are funding the Bush movement. Trump is estimated to have a net worth between 2 and 4 Billion dollars. Each of the Koch brothers is worth over ten times that at 40-42 Billion apiece!

 

Is it even a comparison when we look at resources? And that's what political races come down to. Who can generate the campaign money? And who can do the most damage to the other guys reputations with that money? That's who'll likely win...

 

Bush having been a Governor also makes him more prepared in my mind. The fact that his wife is from Guanajuato, Mexico, in the heart of the country of Mexico, will play well with Hispanic voters in the important southern states once they advertise that more prolifically, like we'll see soon.

 

The only problem I have with Bush I suppose, is kinda like what I overheard a woman on talk radio exclaim: If we get another Bush or Clinton in office, it sends a message to other countries that we only have two elite, powerful families in this country when it's clear that the Kardashians are a force to be dealt with as well!

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Not at all...independent is more the truth.

 

I cannot help it if the most competent candidate decided to run for the Democratic Presidential Nomination.

 

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Same question for you, DWarner. Who amazed you out of them all? ZjTed_zpshorgjw4i.png

 

 

There are no amazing candidates in the field, though Rubio, Kasitch and Fiorina probably represented themselves the best in the last debate.

 

Look, this will be a year when there isn't a particularly strong choice anywhere. A woman who couldn't even beat an unknown Black guy is the presumable leader? Sanders has some good things to say but is he presidential? Biden is a nice man and probably the best politician in the filed if he runs, and most well versed in all the topics, but why would he want to run after seeing how the Repubs and Dems have just squared off for the last 6 years over Obama's presence in office?

 

One thing that is interesting to watch. If either Biden or Sanders does become the POTUS, they would be the first Jewish president, which is note worthy. Although Jewish people only represent around 1.5% of the global and US population, they have been able to centralize their presence and dominate fields that matter the most like law, media, and entertainment. If they begin to get a stronghold in American Politics publicly, it would mark a true victory for Israel and it's advocates. It would also likely mean an unending war against Islam. I'm not sure having one of these men run our country would sit real well with many of our allies in the Middle East. Whether that matters to voters or those in power, I'm not sure...

 

So there is no slam dunk. Just weak lay-up attempts that we'll all have to settle for...

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So there is no slam dunk. Just weak lay-up attempts that we'll all have to settle for...

 

Can't tell if you're referencing the present Dwyane Wade or the action of the debate. mYMI7_zpsapfqjggr.png 

 

Other than that I understand. IW7FSzq_zpsrczhyaaw.png

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 Sanders has some good things to say but is he presidential? 

 

One thing that is interesting to watch. If either Biden or Sanders does become the POTUS, they would be the first Jewish president, which is note worthy. Although Jewish people only represent around 1.5% of the global and US population, they have been able to centralize their presence and dominate fields that matter the most like law, media, and entertainment. If they begin to get a stronghold in American Politics publicly, it would mark a true victory for Israel and it's advocates. It would also likely mean an unending war against Islam. I'm not sure having one of these men run our country would sit real well with many of our allies in the Middle East. Whether that matters to voters or those in power, I'm not sure...

 

What does being presidential actually mean? I don't believe Sanders would have a problem being President of the United States and/or looking the part. Biden is not a Jew, he's Roman Catholic. As for Bernie Sanders being a jew...have you read his views on Israel? He believes Israel has the right to exist, but is a very strong critic of the US pouring military aid into Israel. Sanders is not a proponent of War with Islamic countries. He backs the Iran nuclear deal (Although not perfect) and does not support war orientated thinking. The more you read about Bernie Sanders, the more you'll like what he has to say. If you want more military spending and the likelihood of war, vote for one of these knucklehead republican candidates. JMHO

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What does being presidential actually mean? I don't believe Sanders would have a problem being President of the United States and/or looking the part. Biden is not a Jew, he's Roman Catholic. As for Bernie Sanders being a jew...have you read his views on Israel? He believes Israel has the right to exist, but is a very strong critic of the US pouring military aid into Israel. Sanders is not a proponent of War with Islamic countries. He backs the Iran nuclear deal (Although not perfect) and does not support war orientated thinking. The more you read about Bernie Sanders, the more you'll like what he has to say. If you want more military spending and the likelihood of war, vote for one of these knucklehead republican candidates. JMHO

 

I like Sanders, don't get me wrong. I agree that it's easy to like what he has to say. By far, he's been the most sensible. And I'd never vote for a Republican candidate in these days and times. Even Noam Chompsky has referred to their thinking to be "Confederate like" since the Obama administration took office and not much better before.

 

That's a good question about what is presidential...But by that, I guess I mean, the total package.

 

Wouldn't we want a perfect leader if we had a real choice? That person would be extraordinarily smart. Sharp witted. With a strong understanding of all the topics at hand. Have a great command of language and interacting with people of diverse backgrounds. One would hope that they have a mentality that's somewhat representative of the average, thoughtful American. Maybe some form of military background if possible... And sadly, their look and age would be a factor in the perfect package.

 

People say Hillary can't be president because she's a woman. She's a Rhodes scholar and knows the subject matter like few others, but people feel like she isn't the total package. If she were Bill Clintons brother instead of wife, maybe she'd have an easier chance right?

 

Bernie would be 75 when he took office. Reagan was our oldest president to ever enter office at under 70, so Sanders would certainly be going against the norm. Biden would also be older than Reagan if he were to take office. Trump would be Reagans age but he looks younger than Bernie, and Hillary is younger that all of them but looks older! Rubio is probably younger and greener than the average voter would like to see at my age, 44, and Jeb probably falls right in a decent area at 62. Perry is 65, and I'd never vote for him, but he looks the part. 50-60 would seem like the golden age. A few years outside that either way would probably be acceptable, but how many?

 

It may not matter so much to me, but don't you think age and the perceptions of age matter to the average voter?

 

We know about the history of the JFK and Nixon televised debate where Kennedy wore make-up and Nixon opted not to. Viewers overwhelmingly said Nixon looked nervous and disheveled in comparison to the smoother Kennedy, while radio listeners thought Nixon had clearly won the debate. So we know that how a candidate looks matters as silly as it may be.

 

This is where Bernie may not be the fit that the voters want. His age and his look undermine his message. Making it difficult for voters to check all the boxes of whether or not Sanders "looks" "Presidential" to them...

 

As for Biden being a Catholic you're right... I was mistaking his religion for his documented public position over the years and family ties. There may be some evidence that groups within these two religions have intermingled since 70AD when the Catholic Church triumphed over the Jewish city of Jerusalem. They built the Arch of Titus just outside the Vatican to commemorate the victory. Not that I even care about the subject that much, but religion can also play a large role in politics, so it's interesting to look at connections.

 

Sanders and others have been questioning the posturing of the American/Israel relationship but it doesn't seem to alter public policy. I'd have a hard time seeing a change from the status quo regardless of who's in office really, but just as people assumed Obama would assist his kind, and has quietly in some ways, one might think a person of that long persecuted religion might do the same with his.

 

Just some thoughts...

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So if Hillary was a man she could get elected eh? The woman of this country wouldn't take too kindly to that kind of thinking. Fiorina has jumped to second in the polls behind Trump 24% to 15%. How would this country handle two woman running against each other in the coming election?

 

I personally do not have a problem with Bernie's age. I don't think it has a bearing on his ability to lead this country as President. I don't see how his looks or his age could undermine his stance on the issues. His integrity, consistency, authenticity, clarity, practicality, passion and energy overshadow his age. To use Bernie's age to try and diminish his credibility as a presidential candidate could only be done by a person who is ignorant of his policies and principles. 

 

Clinton would be 69 taking office and Trump would be 70. Reagan was nearly 70 when he took office and was nearly 74 to start his second term. Bernie could handle the job, but I think Hillary will get the nomination and she'll have a good chance of defeating any of the leading male republican candidates, especially Donald Trump.

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So if Hillary was a man she could get elected eh? The woman of this country wouldn't take too kindly to that king of thinking. Fiorina has jumped to second in the polls behind Trump 24% to 15%. How would this country handle two woman running against each other in the coming election?

 

I personally do not have a problem with Bernie's age. I don't think it has a bearing on his ability to lead this country as President. I don't see how his looks or his age could undermine his stance on the issues. His integrity, consistency, authenticity, clarity, practicality, passion and energy overshadow his age. To use Bernie's age to try and diminish his credibility as a presidential candidate could only be done by a person who is ignorant of his policies and principles. 

 

Clinton would be 69 taking office and Trump would be 70. Reagan was nearly 70 when he took office and was nearly 74 to start his second term. Bernie could handle the job, but I think Hillary will get the nomination and she'll have a good chance of defeating any of the leading male republican candidates, especially Donald Trump.

 

I think women of this country would agree that if Hillary were a man with the same credentials that she'd be more electable. I'd even say with this field, they may say it would be a slam dunk... Not only do women believe in a gender bias existing in this great country, but statistics would enforce their beliefs in many cases.

 

And she very well could be president, but it is an inconvenient fact she was unable to overcome this unknown Black male last time she ran, and her popularity since then has probably waned some. We see all this talk of Benghazi where only a few people lost their lives having some negative effect on her polling. So I'm not sure she's a shoe-in even if she is the best Democratic candidate to throw their hat in the ring, by some peoples standards.

 

I'm not sure how we'd handle a Clinton/Fiorina matchup but I predict it about as strongly as I'd predict a Houston/ Milwaukee NBA Final. Gotta be a long shot isn't it? A year out polls don't mean much really, and while Clinton has a strong chance, I see Fiorinas chances more of a long shot.

 

I agree with all your comments on Bernie. Your point about using age and looks to discriminate against him being a mistake made by those who are ignorant of his policies and principles is accurate. It's just that the average voter is ignorant of EVERY candidates policy plans and principles. People don't take the time to do background work on these guys for the most part. Our back and forth about it here is probably more words than most people will type about politics in their entire lives. People just don't give a dam. And with all the games, it's hard to blame 'em...

 

At this point, despite the polls, I still believe Bush will draw the Republican nomination and Hillary will likely draw the Democratic.That would be historic in it's own right...Who wins is anybody's guess with the Koch and Rockefeller money competing. But nobody thought she could lose to the guy from Illinois back in 2007 either, so the safe money would be on the man wouldn't it? Or do you believe we live in a country where obstacles like gender, age, and racial discrimination are fallacies? You're older than me I believe, so if you do, I'd like to learn from your thoughts on that...

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lol...you're post is all the evidence I need to know those "obstacles" are not fallacies.

 

Hillary lost to Obama because the country was more poised and ready to elect a black president than it was to elect a woman president imo. Hillary is a very different person/candidate this time around, so I don't think what happened two terms ago will have much bearing on what will happen in the 2016 Democratic Party nomination.

 

I think we're pretty much on the same page concerning Bernie Sanders...he's pretty much the candidate with the most integrity of all the others. His policies and willingness to debate the "issues" is what will set him apart as the next year progresses. Wether he has the clout necessary to overcome Hillary Clinton and win the Democratic Party nomination, only time will tell. He has my vote at this point.

 

If it ends up being Clinton vs Bush, I feel that would be a close race...but I don't think it's a lock they'll be the two left standing.

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