TRIPLEA2TOOTSIES

2017-2018 NBA Season

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On 10/16/2017 at 11:27 PM, DWarner4 said:

That said, James has had nothing but mediocre coaches really. Rookie coaches like Lue, Blatt, and Mike Brown. Less than historic coaches in Silas and Spo, who's been his best to date. So his path is different than all the other greats pretty much. Think of an All Time Great player then think of their coaches. How many weren't led by coaches of equal distinction for at least a portion of their illustrious careers? Not many. SO that separates him as well. Perhaps it could be said that he's done the most with the least.

 

How many of those all time great coaches were all time greats before they met their star pupil?  Pop will be quick to tell you that the only reason he succeeded was because he had a player who bought in and forced everyone else to follow his lead.  I've never seen a willingness to do that from Lebron, other than a short stretch in Miami when he was being coaxed along by Wade.  To me that has been one of his greatest failures in his career and something he'll regret.

 

On 10/16/2017 at 11:27 PM, DWarner4 said:

SVG is a great coach, though he'll likely have a heart attack one day on the sidelines, but I agree he shouldn't be GM. Really no coach probably should be, so we can't just knock him for that. Doc Rivers was a poor GM as well...But the Pistons do have talent at many positions and the addition of Avery Bradley, who I think will have his best NBA season, should improve their defense and take their approach to contests in a more serious direction. Stan's gonna love that.

 

Stan built a team with a bunch of complementary players surrounding his two stars only to figure out that his stars weren't all that good.  The team only goes as far as Jackson and Drummond can taken them.  One is just a mediocre point guard and the other has such a glaring deficit in his free throw shooting that he becomes unplayable for long stretches in games.  I don't see how that's a recipe for success.

 

On 10/16/2017 at 11:27 PM, DWarner4 said:

People have no respect for Dwight Howard do they? Do you realize that as lowly as he's sunken, he still had a higher PER that the much beloved Paul George last year? He's still a 20 PER cat. He's a first ballot HOFer without question. And despite losing his athleticism and being stiff on offense, he can still change guys minds inside. That's the reason he was brought in and CLIFFORD requested the move actually. He was an assistant under Stan at Orlando and Steve and Dwight got along famously. He felt that if anyone could bring something out of Dwight it was likely him. There's articles about it out there...And they missed Al Jeffersons defensive presence in the paint last year. Dwight's an upgrade there.  Charlotte lost Batum for the year, who's a big part of what they do offensively, but their defense with MKG on the wings and guards and Dwight in the paint should be solid. Plus I want to see if Malik Monk has a little bit of young Ray Allen in him like I think he might...

 

When Howard was a defensive force it was easy to live with all his faults.  Now I expect every team to get worse when he joins them and every teammate to breathe a sigh of relief when he leaves.  What makes it worse is the player who's starting spot hes taking.  I think Zeller deserves some recognition for his role in Kemba's meteoric rise.  Hes everything a small guard could ask for in a pick and roll partner.

 

On 10/16/2017 at 11:27 PM, DWarner4 said:

As for Miami liking to play together, I think that can be fleeting with them. They had good stretches, but I'd submit that any team with Dion Waiters is akin to a ticking timebomb. It may or may not go off, but that tension that it could is there. James Johnson also seems like a highly volatile cat. Big boy Hassan tends to get pouty...So it can be day to day and week to week. Could go either way with their locker room. And I'm not real sold on their talent TBH. But we'll see. If they do well Spo should be praised no doubt. But we know that's not likely...lol

 

I have little doubt that these guys genuinely like playing with one another.  There's just too much evidence to say otherwise.  Whether the talent is there to compete with the big boys I don't know.  It is a frightening prospect knowing that in order to really compete this team probably needs Winslow or JRich to become an all star caliber player.

But the locker room I believe is as solid as they come.  I have never seen a team lose as much as they did last season and still stick together.  Those ticking time bombs had the perfect excuse to go their own way with new contracts looming and the team going nowhere.  I was very skeptical of Waiters when he signed based on his track record.  After last season I'm convinced.

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Damn Hayward .....ankle broken .. that no joke.. I hope its not a carrier ending injury ...

 Boston was the only team to give the Cavs a run.. easy path for the Cavs again..

Cavs looked strong at begin.. but later you can tell.. they are old... Wade is a non factor but lets see how it progress.. 


How bad is it with Green?

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1 hour ago, propheticWrit said:

 

How many of those all time great coaches were all time greats before they met their star pupil?  Pop will be quick to tell you that the only reason he succeeded was because he had a player who bought in and forced everyone else to follow his lead.  I've never seen a willingness to do that from Lebron, other than a short stretch in Miami when he was being coaxed along by Wade.  To me that has been one of his greatest failures in his career and something he'll regret.

 

 

Stan built a team with a bunch of complementary players surrounding his two stars only to figure out that his stars weren't all that good.  The team only goes as far as Jackson and Drummond can taken them.  One is just a mediocre point guard and the other has such a glaring deficit in his free throw shooting that he becomes unplayable for long stretches in games.  I don't see how that's a recipe for success.

 

 

When Howard was a defensive force it was easy to live with all his faults.  Now I expect every team to get worse when he joins them and every teammate to breathe a sigh of relief when he leaves.  What makes it worse is the player who's starting spot hes taking.  I think Zeller deserves some recognition for his role in Kemba's meteoric rise.  Hes everything a small guard could ask for in a pick and roll partner.

 

 

I have little doubt that these guys genuinely like playing with one another.  There's just too much evidence to say otherwise.  Whether the talent is there to compete with the big boys I don't know.  It is a frightening prospect knowing that in order to really compete this team probably needs Winslow or JRich to become an all star caliber player.

But the locker room I believe is as solid as they come.  I have never seen a team lose as much as they did last season and still stick together.  Those ticking time bombs had the perfect excuse to go their own way with new contracts looming and the team going nowhere.  I was very skeptical of Waiters when he signed based on his track record.  After last season I'm convinced.

 

I think his greatest regret is the way he's perceived by the public in this petty social media era. How he's dealt with less than historic coaches isn't even on his radar IMO...

 

And yes, Phil Jackson had won like 4 CBA chips in Albany and had a vision. Red Auerbach was COTY before he coached the Celtics. And Pat Riley was an innovator who won with two opposite styles. Pop has made his mark with understanding personnel. 

 

Again, Avery Bradley...

 

And Cody Zeller has been a help to Kemba? Couldn't that be seen as the other way around? One's average. The other an All-Star type performer...

 

You guys really like this kid Justice Winslow don't you? He's a possible All-Star in the future?

Advanced

 
 
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS WS WS/48   OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
2015-16 19 MIA NBA SF 78 2232 8.4 .489 .251 .253 4.2 15.8 10.2 7.4 1.6 0.9 15.6 12.5   -0.2 2.7 2.5 .054   -2.2 1.6 -0.6 0.8
2016-17 20 MIA NBA SF 18 625 8.2 .399 .156 .209 4.0 12.7 8.3 15.5 2.1 0.8 11.8 19.8   -0.9 0.8 -0.1 -0.009   -4.0 1.2 -2.8 -0.1
Career     NBA   96 2857 8.3 .460 .220 .239 4.2 15.1 9.8 9.2 1.7 0.9 14.4 14.1   -1.1 3.5 2.4 .040   -2.6 1.5 -1.1 0.6

 

How many players in NBA history have gone from two seasons at a 8 PER level to the All Star game? Under 10 PER is a player who wouldn't even dominate in Eurobasket...

 

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1 hour ago, propheticWrit said:

I have little doubt that these guys genuinely like playing with one another.  There's just too much evidence to say otherwise.  Whether the talent is there to compete with the big boys I don't know.  It is a frightening prospect knowing that in order to really compete this team probably needs Winslow or JRich to become an all star caliber player.

But the locker room I believe is as solid as they come.  I have never seen a team lose as much as they did last season and still stick together.  Those ticking time bombs had the perfect excuse to go their own way with new contracts looming and the team going nowhere.  I was very skeptical of Waiters when he signed based on his track record.  After last season I'm convinced.

Image result for respect nod gif

I agree with all of that except for where you suggest that Winslow and or JRich need to become all star caliber for the Heat to really compete.

I believe as long as two of our big 3 (Hassan, Goran, and Dion) play at a All-Star level, we'll be in there.  We just need Winslow and JRich to be available first and foremost, then just be consistently good rather than unpredictable.

 

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39 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

And Cody Zeller has been a help to Kemba? Couldn't that be seen as the other way around? One's average. The other an All-Star type performer...

 

Well one of these days we'll get a stat to measure the effect of a solid screen and guys like Cody will start to get a bit more respect.  Cody helps Kemba, Kemba helps himself.....so no I can't see it as the other way around.  Kemba started to thrive when they gave him a stretch 4 and someone who could set a screen and cause havoc when he dived to the basket.  Clog up the paint and Kemba's entire arsenal is reduced to step back jumpers.

 

51 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

You guys really like this kid Justice Winslow don't you? He's a possible All-Star in the future?

Advanced

 
 
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G MP PER TS% 3PAr FTr ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG%   OWS DWS WS WS/48   OBPM DBPM BPM VORP
2015-16 19 MIA NBA SF 78 2232 8.4 .489 .251 .253 4.2 15.8 10.2 7.4 1.6 0.9 15.6 12.5   -0.2 2.7 2.5 .054   -2.2 1.6 -0.6 0.8
2016-17 20 MIA NBA SF 18 625 8.2 .399 .156 .209 4.0 12.7 8.3 15.5 2.1 0.8 11.8 19.8   -0.9 0.8 -0.1 -0.009   -4.0 1.2 -2.8 -0.1
Career     NBA   96 2857 8.3 .460 .220 .239 4.2 15.1 9.8 9.2 1.7 0.9 14.4 14.1   -1.1 3.5 2.4 .040   -2.6 1.5 -1.1 0.6

 

How many players in NBA history have gone from two seasons at a 8 PER level to the All Star game? Under 10 PER is a player who wouldn't even dominate in Eurobasket...

 

Possible but not likely.  I don't pay much attention to PER.  As a rookie he was a plus player which is a rare occurrence regardless of the stats he was able to produce.

 

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1 hour ago, TRIPLEA2TOOTSIES said:

I agree with all of that except for where you suggest that Winslow and or JRich need to become all star caliber for the Heat to really compete.

I believe as long as two of our big 3 (Hassan, Goran, and Dion) play at a All-Star level, we'll be in there.  We just need Winslow and JRich to be available first and foremost, then just be consistently good rather than unpredictable.

 

I have a tough time seeing Goran or Dion repeating their second half shooting performance and I think they need to be in that 40% range if they're going to be in the all star conversation.

Hassan certainly has the ability and I think we've all beaten to death all the reasons why he won't.  Hopefully he proves the naysayers wrong and produces at a level that is impossible to ignore.

 

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5 hours ago, propheticWrit said:

 

Well one of these days we'll get a stat to measure the effect of a solid screen and guys like Cody will start to get a bit more respect.  Cody helps Kemba, Kemba helps himself.....so no I can't see it as the other way around.  Kemba started to thrive when they gave him a stretch 4 and someone who could set a screen and cause havoc when he dived to the basket.  Clog up the paint and Kemba's entire arsenal is reduced to step back jumpers.

 

 

Possible but not likely.  I don't pay much attention to PER.  As a rookie he was a plus player which is a rare occurrence regardless of the stats he was able to produce.

 

 

Your first sentence I wholly I agree with. We're right around the corner for more advanced metrics to come online which will shed a better light on the symbiotic relationships of certain type of players, similar to what you mention. A scoring PG and a pick setter who can shoot a jumper for example... 

 

But when that comes available, just like you do with PER, people probably won't really care to figure out what it means and instead will criticize the new metrics, right? That's what we do. We're pretty good at it...

 

Advanced stats are here for a purpose. Whether we choose to understand that purpose or appreciate it is entirely up to us. It seems most people don't for some reason, so you're not alone... I do, so I consider every metric helpful in analyzing the game.

 

But to say you don't pay attention to PER, and in the same paragraph cite advanced stats of court time plus/minus as an indicator of a players abilities, seems kind of disingenuous.

 

Plus you seem to follow the game more intelligently and closer than most people. Stats mean something to you. If they support your viewpoints I'd assume you utilize them. When they don't bolster your stance, how do you respond? Do you say that the stats don't mean much to you? Or that you need to change your stance?

 

Our eyes may tell us one thing, but when the math doesn't support our stances, are we to assume the math is wrong? Or is it us?

 

And I agree Zeller's not a bad pick and pop guy, but is he the best guy that Kemba coulda hoped to play with league wide? Is he a better pick and pop guy than other PG's have on their roster? We know that's not the case. He's a replacement level player and we've probably typed more words about the man now than the rest of the basketball fans in America combined.

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Wonder what Kyrie must be thinking tonight. Just got beat by the Bucks and now 0-2 to start the season. Greek Freak with the 37/13 double-double.

 

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15 hours ago, DWarner4 said:

Your first sentence I wholly I agree with. We're right around the corner for more advanced metrics to come online which will shed a better light on the symbiotic relationships of certain type of players, similar to what you mention. A scoring PG and a pick setter who can shoot a jumper for example... 

 

But when that comes available, just like you do with PER, people probably won't really care to figure out what it means and instead will criticize the new metrics, right? That's what we do. We're pretty good at it...

 

Advanced stats are here for a purpose. Whether we choose to understand that purpose or appreciate it is entirely up to us. It seems most people don't for some reason, so you're not alone... I do, so I consider every metric helpful in analyzing the game.

 

But to say you don't pay attention to PER, and in the same paragraph cite advanced stats of court time plus/minus as an indicator of a players abilities, seems kind of disingenuous.

 

I have nothing against advanced stats......just don't consider PER one of them.  Its nothing more than the reorganization of the box score.  I appreciate the fact that he didn't have everything we now have available when he came up with that metric but I still don't like it.  The "plus player" for me is in part a subjective measure.  As will be the case with most new metrics that try to define things like the quality of a screen or the effectiveness of movement.

 

15 hours ago, DWarner4 said:

And I agree Zeller's not a bad pick and pop guy, but is he the best guy that Kemba coulda hoped to play with league wide? Is he a better pick and pop guy than other PG's have on their roster? We know that's not the case. He's a replacement level player and we've probably typed more words about the man now than the rest of the basketball fans in America combined.

 

I tend to see Zeller in a better light along with guys like Steve Adams, Nurkic, Tristan Thompson.  If you're a guard you love playing with guys like that.  In contrast to someone like Howard who still thinks its a good idea for him to pound the ball in the post and whose goal in setting a screen is getting the ball back in position to score.  The same thing makes it so frustrating to watch Whiteside.

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9 hours ago, Majestic said:

Wonder what Kyrie must be thinking tonight. Just got beat by the Bucks and now 0-2 to start the season. Greek Freak with the 37/13 double-double

 

Brown is a stud, Tatum is going to be pretty good, Rozier looks good, and he gets to put up 20+ shots a game....I think hes ok with the decision he made.  Everyone knew the defense was going to suck and they would struggle when the jumpers weren't falling.  

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