DWarner4

NBA MANIPULATION

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It's been my belief for some time that the NBA manipulates outcomes of games through timely calls or non-calls made by the officials. Not by mistakes made by those officials, but with a clear intention of changing game outcomes and player perceptions with the public.

 

Many of us have read Tim Donaghy's book Personal Foul . Donaghy is the ex-NBA official who was ousted for gambling on games with organized crime members and subsequently incarcerated. I did, and after reading that, many of my feelings were substantiated through Donaghy's assertions.

 

The problem is, is that the NBA (and probably other professional sports leagues) have become masterminds at hiding what's happening. When we go to a Harlem Globetrotters game, we know the officials and two teams are all one product working together. It's a similar setup in the NBA but it's disguised in a more competitive format. So as fans we're not apt to see the overt manipulation like we do in the Globetrotter contests, and go home with the feeling that it was true, fair competition.

 

Again, I don't believe it really is true competition, necessarily. It's a controlled entertainment product disguised as honest competition. There's too much money at stake to believe otherwise...

 

The players aren't aware of it, and have no control over whether the officials calls will benefit or hurt them and their public images. That's for the heads at the NBA to decide based off market research they pay millions to collect from anonymous fan groups that participate in questionnaires, and through consultation with entertainment experts .

 

Don't believe your favorite League is being manipulated? There are some statistics we can investigate to see how the model works.

 

I look at how and where players tend to operate on the floor to decide if a person should be a high free throw attempt individual or not. Generally, the closer to the rim a player operates, the more they draw fouls. The further out their average attempt and general patterns of movement are, they draw less fouls, generating fewer free throws, naturally. We can all accept that. Play near the rim and get fouled more- play out in space and play relatively free of contact. Right? It's common sense...So stats should back that notion up.

 

In particular, I looked at LeBron James numbers for the young year. Still the biggest star in the NBA and best player in the NBA. We just witnessed him drop 57 last night becoming only the 2nd player in NBA history to hit over 50 after their 15th season. Kobe had 60 in his last game on 50 shots. Bron had an efficient, "young mans" night with under 35 balls hoisted. He led the NBA in minutes last year and is second per game right now again, so basically, he's still "the Man"... We used to believe "The Man" would get the benefit of the whistles just because of their status. Forget where they operate, they always get all the LOVE...That really hasn't been the case for James.

 

43% of James shots come from 0-3 feet from the basket and he uses 23% of his attempts to launch 3balls. He has a career free throw rate of 42%. Meaning on 42% of his attempts he draws a shooting foul. About what we might expect from a guy who plays so near the bucket and so many minutes. Perhaps low for a guy of his status, but considerable...This year he's experiencing a career low 27% FT rate despite being a leader in minutes and spending more time in the paint than most guys. He's averaging a career low 5 FT attempts per game and isn't in the NBA's top 20 in attempts per game... The numbers indicate it's not about aggressiveness or where he moves on the court, and we all know if he's not the man he's still the NBA cash cow, so what is it?

 

For comparison, let's look at a a handful of players numbers:

 

Harden- 20% of shots come from 0-3 feet, while 52% come from 3point range. His FTR or free throw rate, is 38%, down from a ridiculous 58% last year while they were boosting his MVP credentials all season.

 

Cousins- He's at a career low with only 27% of his attempts coming from 0-3, while attempting a career high 37% of his shots from deep. His FTR is still around 43% where it's always been. More of his shots come from deep, less from the inside, he plays the same minutes, yet still gets to the stripe more than James. He complains more than most, so maybe the squeaky wheel is just getting the oil?

 

ADavis- 38% of shots come from 0-3, 16% come from downtown. His FTR is a career high 53%, up from 42% last year. More of James shots come close to the rim, he plays 2 more minutes per night, yet Davis gets twice the calls James gets.

 

Dwight Howard- 72% of his shots come from 0-3, he shoots no 3's, and has a 98% FTR! They obviously foul Dwight Intentionally more than other guys since he's at 40% from the stripe, but he plays close to the bucket so he gets fouled and is sent to the line naturally a lot as well.

 

Dame Lillard- 30% of Dames shots are from 0-3, and 39% come from deep. He's getting to the stripe at LeBrons career rate of 42% this year- A career high. He's being boosted up at the FT line from what numbers would suggest...

 

Steph- Only 22% of his shots are from 0-3 feet out, and 58% come from deep. He has a FTR of 44%! Almost 20% higher than his career best...He's being boosted up, or his team because they've struggled out of the gate. But he falls down on every drive whether he's hit or not and gets the benefit of the whistle. I'm sure when James watches how the refs treat Steph he wants to vomit.

 

Then there's Giannis. Everybody's talking about the MVP. The league may have other plans as indicated by the way they're officiating him this year. Giannis is one of the few non-bigs who spends more time in the 0-3 feet area than James. 50% of his attempts come from close up. Only 11% of his shots come from 3point range. His FTR is 36%, down from 49% last year. What? He went from a 28 to a 34% usage rate and his free throw attempts have gone down? If you've watched some Milwaukee games you've seen the young stud scratching his head a lot this year...

 

So while you may not agree that James is hurt from officiating, or that the NBA is trying to manipulate the outcomes and perceptions, we can agree that officiating is wildly inconsistent. This understanding alone allows room for manipulation. So it's something I always keep my eye on.

 

Throughout the year, there will be instances of NBA manipulation or a questionable handling of events that pops up from time to time. If you see those type of situations post about them in this thread and we can compare notes.

 

 

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lmao.... sorry but i have to disagree.. lebron james has got the most Ref help in history of the game, during the big 3 era it was the main thing everyone around the league complained about how much superstar treatment james got in his heat era. So if anything, he has to thank the nba for making his career look even better. lets not forget the 9 point performance in a finals game. We blaming the refs for that too?? whether hes still gettin that help or not is subject for debate, but that may point to him not being as dominate as he once was. ok he scores 57, congrats, he took like 50 shots. big deal 

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24 minutes ago, JustiseForHeat20 said:

lmao.... sorry but i have to disagree.. lebron james has got the most Ref help in history of the game, during the big 3 era it was the main thing everyone around the league complained about how much superstar treatment james got in his heat era. So if anything, he has to thank the nba for making his career look even better. lets not forget the 9 point performance in a finals game. We blaming the refs for that too?? whether hes still gettin that help or not is subject for debate, but that may point to him not being as dominate as he once was. ok he scores 57, congrats, he took like 50 shots. big deal 

 

Yo he took 34 shots man, not 50. :lol:

 

If he took 50 he may have topped 75.

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3 hours ago, DWarner4 said:

It's been my belief for some time that the NBA manipulates outcomes of games through timely calls or non-calls made by the officials. Not by mistakes made by those officials, but with a clear intention of changing game outcomes and player perceptions with the public.

 

Many of us have read Tim Donaghy's book Personal Foul . Donaghy is the ex-NBA official who was ousted for gambling on games with organized crime members and subsequently incarcerated. I did, and after reading that, many of my feelings were substantiated through Donaghy's assertions.

 

The problem is, is that the NBA (and probably other professional sports leagues) have become masterminds at hiding what's happening. When we go to a Harlem Globetrotters game, we know the officials and two teams are all one product working together. It's a similar setup in the NBA but it's disguised in a more competitive format. So as fans we're not apt to see the overt manipulation like we do in the Globetrotter contests, and go home with the feeling that it was true, fair competition.

 

Again, I don't believe it really is true competition, necessarily. It's a controlled entertainment product disguised as honest competition. There's too much money at stake to believe otherwise...

 

The players aren't aware of it, and have no control over whether the officials calls will benefit or hurt them and their public images. That's for the heads at the NBA to decide based off market research they pay millions to collect from anonymous fan groups that participate in questionnaires, and through consultation with entertainment experts .

 

Don't believe your favorite League is being manipulated? There are some statistics we can investigate to see how the model works.

 

I look at how and where players tend to operate on the floor to decide if a person should be a high free throw attempt individual or not. Generally, the closer to the rim a player operates, the more they draw fouls. The further out their average attempt and general patterns of movement are, they draw less fouls, generating fewer free throws, naturally. We can all accept that. Play near the rim and get fouled more- play out in space and play relatively free of contact. Right? It's common sense...So stats should back that notion up.

 

In particular, I looked at LeBron James numbers for the young year. Still the biggest star in the NBA and best player in the NBA. We just witnessed him drop 57 last night becoming only the 2nd player in NBA history to hit over 50 after their 15th season. Kobe had 60 in his last game on 50 shots. Bron had an efficient, "young mans" night with under 35 balls hoisted. He led the NBA in minutes last year and is second per game right now again, so basically, he's still "the Man"... We used to believe "The Man" would get the benefit of the whistles just because of their status. Forget where they operate, they always get all the LOVE...That really hasn't been the case for James.

 

43% of James shots come from 0-3 feet from the basket and he uses 23% of his attempts to launch 3balls. He has a career free throw rate of 42%. Meaning on 42% of his attempts he draws a shooting foul. About what we might expect from a guy who plays so near the bucket and so many minutes. Perhaps low for a guy of his status, but considerable...This year he's experiencing a career low 27% FT rate despite being a leader in minutes and spending more time in the paint than most guys. He's averaging a career low 5 FT attempts per game and isn't in the NBA's top 20 in attempts per game... The numbers indicate it's not about aggressiveness or where he moves on the court, and we all know if he's not the man he's still the NBA cash cow, so what is it?

 

For comparison, let's look at a a handful of players numbers:

 

Harden- 20% of shots come from 0-3 feet, while 52% come from 3point range. His FTR or free throw rate, is 38%, down from a ridiculous 58% last year while they were boosting his MVP credentials all season.

 

Cousins- He's at a career low with only 27% of his attempts coming from 0-3, while attempting a career high 37% of his shots from deep. His FTR is still around 43% where it's always been. More of his shots come from deep, less from the inside, he plays the same minutes, yet still gets to the stripe more than James. He complains more than most, so maybe the squeaky wheel is just getting the oil?

 

ADavis- 38% of shots come from 0-3, 16% come from downtown. His FTR is a career high 53%, up from 42% last year. More of James shots come close to the rim, he plays 2 more minutes per night, yet Davis gets twice the calls James gets.

 

Dwight Howard- 72% of his shots come from 0-3, he shoots no 3's, and has a 98% FTR! They obviously foul Dwight Intentionally more than other guys since he's at 40% from the stripe, but he plays close to the bucket so he gets fouled and is sent to the line naturally a lot as well.

 

Dame Lillard- 30% of Dames shots are from 0-3, and 39% come from deep. He's getting to the stripe at LeBrons career rate of 42% this year- A career high. He's being boosted up at the FT line from what numbers would suggest...

 

Steph- Only 22% of his shots are from 0-3 feet out, and 58% come from deep. He has a FTR of 44%! Almost 20% higher than his career best...He's being boosted up, or his team because they've struggled out of the gate. But he falls down on every drive whether he's hit or not and gets the benefit of the whistle. I'm sure when James watches how the refs treat Steph he wants to vomit.

 

Then there's Giannis. Everybody's talking about the MVP. The league may have other plans as indicated by the way they're officiating him this year. Giannis is one of the few non-bigs who spends more time in the 0-3 feet area than James. 50% of his attempts come from close up. Only 11% of his shots come from 3point range. His FTR is 36%, down from 49% last year. What? He went from a 28 to a 34% usage rate and his free throw attempts have gone down? If you've watched some Milwaukee games you've seen the young stud scratching his head a lot this year...

 

So while you may not agree that James is hurt from officiating, or that the NBA is trying to manipulate the outcomes and perceptions, we can agree that officiating is wildly inconsistent. This understanding alone allows room for manipulation. So it's something I always keep my eye on.

 

Throughout the year, there will be instances of NBA manipulation or a questionable handling of events that pops up from time to time. If you see those type of situations post about them in this thread and we can compare notes.

 

 

 

I agree that officiating is super inconsistent. There's no clear cut line that determines what a 'foul' is - it's all subjective to the referee's point of view. It's actually quite annoying to watch at times and the more rules the league adds, the tougher it gets to officiate the game.

 

Another thing that makes officiating so inconsistent is how they judge fouls at the end of games. During crunch time, you actually need to get hit hard in order for a foul to be called. However, the time before that the referee may call every little nitty bitty foul. That's one thing they should shore up - call the game the same way throughout all 48 minutes.

 

In terms of the league favoring certain players, I agree on that too. Basketball is a sport but the NBA - just like any other association - is a business at heart. The superstar's get the better treatment in terms of calls. It's like in the UFC, if a 'superstar' fighter was on the verge of getting finished the referee will give him the benefit of the doubt and let the fight continue for a couple extra seconds to see if he can recover instead of stopping it prematurely, as he would if it was just a regular fighter. 

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15 hours ago, DWarner4 said:

It's been my belief for some time that the NBA manipulates outcomes of games through timely calls or non-calls made by the officials. Not by mistakes made by those officials, but with a clear intention of changing game outcomes and player perceptions with the public.

 

Many of us have read Tim Donaghy's book Personal Foul . Donaghy is the ex-NBA official who was ousted for gambling on games with organized crime members and subsequently incarcerated. I did, and after reading that, many of my feelings were substantiated through Donaghy's assertions.

 

The problem is, is that the NBA (and probably other professional sports leagues) have become masterminds at hiding what's happening. When we go to a Harlem Globetrotters game, we know the officials and two teams are all one product working together. It's a similar setup in the NBA but it's disguised in a more competitive format. So as fans we're not apt to see the overt manipulation like we do in the Globetrotter contests, and go home with the feeling that it was true, fair competition.

 

Again, I don't believe it really is true competition, necessarily. It's a controlled entertainment product disguised as honest competition. There's too much money at stake to believe otherwise...

 

 

So you think Adam Silver, NBA officials at the highest levels, the owners and the NBA Referees Association are all complicit in a scheme to manipulate NBA games so they can create more revenue. So they're just as corrupt as Tim Donaghy...actually they would be considered even more corrupt because they have all the power and control of the NBA. That would be one helluva scandal if it was actually true and was brought to light. Whooooah! lol

That said, what's wrong with controlled entertainment? The rules of the game make it a controlled environment. What is true competition anyways? As long as you have people on the court refereeing the game, it is inevitable that there will be imperfect outcomes. Even if the referees had an agenda of some kind to manipulate games, there's still going to be competition. Better players and better teams are going to win more games than they'll lose. Refs can't manipulate that fact. As long as there are rules that dictate how the games are played you will never have unfettered competition. Some team or player is going to get a bad call(s) that can have an influence on the outcome of a game. Happens all the time. 

Professional sports are controlled no matter how you look at it. If you think there's corruption going on, then you have to make a case and prove it in a court of law. Yes, there's always going to be inconsistencies in the way refs do their jobs on the court night in and night out. It's the nature of the beast. They're imperfect human beings and they will always be susceptible to mistakes. Lousy officiating and league wide corruption are two very different things...good luck trying to prove the latter. Better have more conclusive evidence than what you are presenting above to get an indictment on anyone bro. 

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14 hours ago, JustiseForHeat20 said:

lmao.... sorry but i have to disagree.. lebron james has got the most Ref help in history of the game, during the big 3 era it was the main thing everyone around the league complained about how much superstar treatment james got in his heat era. So if anything, he has to thank the nba for making his career look even better. lets not forget the 9 point performance in a finals game. We blaming the refs for that too?? whether hes still gettin that help or not is subject for debate, but that may point to him not being as dominate as he once was. ok he scores 57, congrats, he took like 50 shots. big deal 

 

"LeBron has the most ref help in NBA history"

 

I gave you math to back my assessment up. And there's more... Where's your math? An opinion is really irrelevant if it's not backed by something verifiable isn't it?

 

For the years in question, the Miami years, there's actually decent evidence, and I'd been bringing it up for years in here, that the way both he and DWade were being officiated changed to make games more competitve. We've read and heard those two make such references themselves. And their per game and Free throw rates back their(and my) opinions up.

 

I have a whole breakdown of numbers but to keep it simple, for the 5 years before they joined up as teammates Bron averaged 9.84 FT attempts per game while your boy Wade averaged 9.86. In their 4 seasons of Miami greatness together, Bron averaged 7.75 while Wade dropped down to 6.43 attempts per game. Each of their FTRates dropped comparatively in that time...That's math. Minus around two attempts for one guy, minus 3.5 for the other. Enough combined to make games more competitive for the opponent by eliminating 5 or 6 points at the stripe alone...

 

Bron played closer to the basket in his Miami days, and even closer since, while Wade played the same game with and without James while his body was decent. His time in the 0-3 foot area remained constant. While James usage stayed constant, Wades decreased around 4 possessions. He was getting a free throw around once every 8 or 9 possessions so some fall off may have been due to that, but for players like he and James, who aren't very good shooters and are rhythm type players, trips to the stripe are vital to get their mojo right. SO while they gain confidence at the stripe, the rest of their game takes off. People who've played the game understand this phenomena...By the officials altering the number of attempts by nearly 6 per contest compared to what their game styles indicate they should've got, they may have effectively been taking 10 points off the board every night while we watched unknowingly. And when you're wasting time complaining about the officials like the Heat were known for, how much does that effect your rhythm?

 

So again, how bout some math to back yourself up?

 

If you don't have any I understand. People like to indulge themselves sometimes. But what I've learned in my life is that the TRUTH is usually STRANGER THAN FICTION. Sometimes people don't wanna open their eyes to see what's right in front of their faces... It sounds far fetched. I agree...But a plane leaving no debris after it wrecks into a field or building would seem far fetched to me as well, yet our entire country believes that's what happened in Shanksville Pennsylvania and the Pentagon...

 

The mode of operation in the handling of LeBron James (and other stars of today in some cases) for the NBA has changed from how other Superstars over time have been handled. It's the Floyd Mayweather Effect...They understand haters like yourself are watching too, and no longer neglect that other side of an athletes audience. Congratulations is in order I suppose because the haters are finally being fully accounted for.

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3 hours ago, Majestic said:

 

 

So you think Adam Silver, NBA officials at the highest levels, the owners and the NBA Referees Association are all complicit in a scheme to manipulate NBA games so they can create more revenue. So they're just as corrupt as Tim Donaghy...actually they would be considered even more corrupt because they have all the power and control of the NBA. That would be one helluva scandal if it was actually true and was brought to light. Whooooah! lol

That said, what's wrong with controlled entertainment? The rules of the game make it a controlled environment. What is true competition anyways? As long as you have people on the court refereeing the game, it is inevitable that there will be imperfect outcomes. Even if the referees had an agenda of some kind to manipulate games, there's still going to be competition. Better players and better teams are going to win more games than they'll lose. Refs can't manipulate that fact. As long as there are rules that dictate how the games are played you will never have unfettered competition. Some team or player is going to get a bad call(s) that can have an influence on the outcome of a game. Happens all the time. 

Professional sports are controlled no matter how you look at it. If you think there's corruption going on, then you have to make a case and prove it in a court of law. Yes, there's always going to be inconsistencies in the way refs do their jobs on the court night in and night out. It's the nature of the beast. They're imperfect human beings and they will always be susceptible to mistakes. Lousy officiating and league wide corruption are two very different things...good luck trying to prove the latter. Better have more conclusive evidence than what you are presenting above to get an indictment on anyone bro. 

 

Absolutely. That's exactly what I'm saying.

 

Majestic, you're not one of these people who believe that the story that was told to us regarding 9/11 was the absolute truth are you? Do you believe a plane crash can leave no debris? Or that a passport from a pilot of a plane would float out of that mans bag, escape the explosion and land unharmed, conveniently on top of the rubble pile of the Trade Center? We've spent too many hours responding to one another for me to believe you're not a person with your eyes open. Although I don't know you, I believe you to be an intelligent human being just based on our digital correspondence over the past 8 years or so. You've been exposed to America longer than me as you're my elder...You fully understand everything is not as it seems, all the time. If we still don't know what happened on that one fateful day in September, how can we believe anything? Ever? Strange sh it happens. We both know that. Let's not sit up here and act otherwise...

 

Conspiracies can, and do exist. It's no more that two or more people coming together trying to affect an outcome. It happens all the time really. I know you follow politics and liked Bernie. Was there not a conspiracy enacted against his campaign that Donna Brazile just exposed for some reason? It happens Bro. All the time...

 

Do the NBA officials coordinate with the NBA Referees group or are they entirely separate entities? They're one and the same. With the same goal. Increased revenue.

 

Are they as corrupt as Tim Donaghy? No question. More-so in fact. And how they handled his situation was probably criminal in nature. They acted in the same way organized crime may have behaved. They were fully aware that his situation was just the tip of the iceberg and were quick to disassociate themselves with him to remove themselves from any unwanted speculation that they knew he and others were involved in numerous illegal activities.

 

Now, am I, or my opinion of any consequence to this juggernaut of an American business model? Of course not. Aren't there a large number of people out there who think 9/11 was contrived? Have they been able to change public opinion in that arena?

 

So I'm not seeking an indictment. I'm seeking enlightenment.

 

I've likely never changed your, or many other readers of the Inferno's minds about anything...I understand not everyone is seeking the same thing. For those who do like to think outside the box, it's something to think about...

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1 hour ago, Majestic said:

 

 

So you think Adam Silver, NBA officials at the highest levels, the owners and the NBA Referees Association are all complicit in a scheme to manipulate NBA games so they can create more revenue. So they're just as corrupt as Tim Donaghy...actually they would be considered even more corrupt because they have all the power and control of the NBA. That would be one helluva scandal if it was actually true and was brought to light. Whooooah! lol

That said, what's wrong with controlled entertainment? The rules of the game make it a controlled environment. What is true competition anyways? As long as you have people on the court refereeing the game, it is inevitable that there will be imperfect outcomes. Even if the referees had an agenda of some kind to manipulate games, there's still going to be competition. Better players and better teams are going to win more games than they'll lose. Refs can't manipulate that fact. As long as there are rules that dictate how the games are played you will never have unfettered competition. Some team or player is going to get a bad call(s) that can have an influence on the outcome of a game. Happens all the time. 

Professional sports are controlled no matter how you look at it. If you think there's corruption going on, then you have to make a case and prove it in a court of law. Yes, there's always going to be inconsistencies in the way refs do their jobs on the court night in and night out. It's the nature of the beast. They're imperfect human beings and they will always be susceptible to mistakes. Lousy officiating and league wide corruption are two very different things...good luck trying to prove the latter. Better have more conclusive evidence than what you are presenting above to get an indictment on anyone bro. 

 

I'm inclined to agree with you here, OG.  I try to never get too caught up with whether or not pro sports is "fixed".  Ignorance is bliss as far as I'm concerned.  I've been watching pro sports, more specifically the NBA for as long as I can remember, and to ever find out that there was anything to the extent of what the homie DWarner is talking about, would be the equivalent of telling a child that Santa Clause died.  I just don't see how it's possible when you consider all of the factors that come into play that can't be scripted, such as Dion's in and out 3 ball the other night at the buzzer. 

I will say that those stats in regard to LeBron not getting to the line are peculiar.  I don't believe that points to any manipulation going on though...at least nothing blatant. 

You guys are a lot smarter than me, but somebody is gonna have to explain to me how LeBron's low FT rate is an indication that the NBA is manipulating the outcome of games.  That would suggest some sort of agenda against the biggest name in the sport, wouldn't it?  What sense would that make?

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TRIPLEA2TOOTSIES said:

 

  That would suggest some sort of agenda against the biggest name in the sport, wouldn't it?  What sense would that make?

 

 

 

 

Lebron has like 45 million fans. He has around 100-150 million haters. For various reasons. That's why it makes sense.

 

Marketing types lacked the understanding of how the opposite side of the story needs exposure too. In some cases, people prefer fiction and a great storylne to truth.

 

Would Floyd Mayweather be as well known or as wealthy if he relied only on people who like him to pay for his product? It's possible that 7 out of 10 people who pay for his fights wants to see him lose. But they PAY none the less!

 

The opinions of haters is big business. All you have to do is turn on ESPN, FOX sports or any sports talk show to see this. Reality doesn't matter! The story is what matters. And money matters even more than that...

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2 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

 

Lebron has like 45 million fans. He has around 100-150 million haters. For various reasons. That's why it makes sense.

 

Marketing types lacked the understanding of how the opposite side of the story needs exposure too. In some cases, people prefer fiction and a great storylne to truth.

 

Would Floyd Mayweather be as well known or as wealthy if he relied only on people who like him to pay for his product? It's possible that 7 out of 10 people who pay for his fights wants to see him lose. But they PAY none the less!

 

The opinions of haters is big business. All you have to do is turn on ESPN, FOX sports or any sports talk show to see this. Reality doesn't matter! The story is what matters. And money matters even more than that...

 

Man,  you're on one today DWarner!  Blowing the whistle on everything! lol

I hear what you're saying though, and the Mayweather analogy is a good one when you think about how many of his haters tune in hoping to see him lose.  No doubt LeBron is the same kind of sports celebrity where he's the obvious best, but viewed by many as "the heel".

I'm not so naïve to think that once you start peeling back the layers of the onion that is the NBA, that one would have no problems finding some funny business.  It's just my personal choice as a consumer to turn a blind eye I guess.

You make a good point though about it being profitable to appease the haters...

Related image  What a wonderful world!

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34 minutes ago, TRIPLEA2TOOTSIES said:

 

Man,  you're on one today DWarner!  Blowing the whistle on everything! lol

I hear what you're saying though, and the Mayweather analogy is a good one when you think about how many of his haters tune in hoping to see him lose.  No doubt LeBron is the same kind of sports celebrity where he's the obvious best, but viewed by many as "the heel".

I'm not so naïve to think that once you start peeling back the layers of the onion that is the NBA, that one would have no problems finding some funny business.  It's just my personal choice as a consumer to turn a blind eye I guess.

You make a good point though about it being profitable to appease the haters...

Related image  What a wonderful world!

 

Funny stuff... Nah, I mean, I prefer to consume the product with a blind eye as well. When I was young I did so without anything clouding my vision. Now I've been around the block a few times and understand the world around me differently. It doesn't change how I watch the games with a young mans eye on what the best of the game represents. These guys are competing at it and that's fun. They're the best athletes on the planet doing athletic feats that bring excitement. And it's my favorite game that people engage in. SO I'm stuck, Regardless of whether or not I agree with how it's being presented to us.

 

I really don't even hold a grudge about it truthfully. I just don't like to be made a fool. Things like the last 2 minute report prey on our nature of trusting authority and serve a purpose of the League appearing to desire transparency. We're the fools if we believe they'd really expose their underbelly.

 

That's all. SO when people see questionable sh it come up, I was just hoping we could have a place to catalog it. I suppose starting with a case about LeBron being done dirty wasn't gonna sit too well in here though, was it? 

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18 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

 

Funny stuff... Nah, I mean, I prefer to consume the product with a blind eye as well. When I was young I did so without anything clouding my vision. Now I've been around the block a few times and understand the world around me differently. It doesn't change how I watch the games with a young mans eye on what the best of the game represents. These guys are competing at it and that's fun. They're the best athletes on the planet doing athletic feats that bring excitement. And it's my favorite game that people engage in. SO I'm stuck, Regardless of whether or not I agree with how it's being presented to us.

 

I really don't even hold a grudge about it truthfully. I just don't like to be made a fool. Things like the last 2 minute report prey on our nature of trusting authority and serve a purpose of the League appearing to desire transparency. We're the fools if we believe they'd really expose their underbelly.

 

That's all. SO when people see questionable sh it come up, I was just hoping we could have a place to catalog it. I suppose starting with a case about LeBron being done dirty wasn't gonna sit too well in here though, was it? 

 

Hell naw. lol

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Ok...

So let's move away from LeBron and on to another example of questionable officiating. Whether it affected the outcome of the game is hard to tell, and how an anomaly lke this even happens is undetermined. But it's crazy however it happens...

 

 A few games ago, Majestic noticed it as well, the Detroit Pistons played the LA Lakers in LA. The pistons fouled 11 times in the contest sending the Lakers players to the FT stripe for 14 attempts. The Lakers players fouled the Pistons 14 times, 3 more than they were fouled themselves, yet only sent the Pistons to the stripe for 1 meaningful free throw by Reggie Jackson and 2 by a little used reserve in mop-up time.   https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201710310LAL.html

 

3 free throws on 14 fouls, versus 14 free throws on 11 fouls for the home team.

How does this happen?

 

It's often noted that most of what we consider the home court advantage can be attributed to the human nature of officials reacting to the home crowd.

 

Is this what happened here? It can be explained away as the referees tendencies? 

Was it just a statistical anomaly?

Did lead official Ron Garretson have a bone to pick with the often boisterous Van Gundy?

Or was the League potentially trying to assist the Lakers for some reason?

 

Which option would the NBA hope you believe it is?

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15 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

Is this what happened here? It can be explained away as the referees tendencies? 

Was it just a statistical anomaly?

Did lead official Ron Garretson have a bone to pick with the often boisterous Van Gundy?

Or was the League potentially trying to assist the Lakers for some reason?

 

Which option would the NBA hope you believe it is?

 

It's one thing to ask those questions, it's a completely different task trying to definitively answer them. 

Too many people proposing conspiracy theories and not enough people doing the painstaking work it takes to get to the truth.

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15 hours ago, Majestic said:

 

It's one thing to ask those questions, it's a completely different task trying to definitively answer them. 

Too many people proposing conspiracy theories and not enough people doing the painstaking work it takes to get to the truth.

 

Because they're blocked at every entrance... And face ridicule... And stand the chance of sounding different...And silenced... Among other things that make it like you say-painstaking...

 

If we don't consider the possibilities, we're not even scratching the surface of what's possible. You never get to the bottom of the situation without at least starting to dig.

 

But then there are those who are offended when people start digging around. Or would want things to stay as they are because they're comfortable with that position.  I'm particularity leery of those types. Because naivety is a cousin of ignorance, and I want no part of that. I don't feel the need to know everything, but I'm compelled to learn as much as I can. So when I see a rock, I turn it over. Where there's smoke, I want to see if there's a fire...

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15 hours ago, Majestic said:

 

It's one thing to ask those questions, it's a completely different task trying to definitively answer them. 

Too many people proposing conspiracy theories and not enough people doing the painstaking work it takes to get to the truth.

 

And you didn't mention your stance on Brazille's situation. Was that a conspiracy?

 

Just because it's titled a "conspiracy" doesn't mean it's not real... We tend to lose sight of that. By design... 

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4 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

So when I see a rock, I turn it over. Where there's smoke, I want to see if there's a fire...

 

Be careful bro, sometimes when you turn over rocks there's a snake under it ready to bite you in the a-s-s! lol

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12 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

And you didn't mention your stance on Brazille's situation. Was that a conspiracy?

Just because it's titled a "conspiracy" doesn't mean it's not real... We tend to lose sight of that. By design... 

 

I don't really have a "stance" on Brazile's book because I haven't actually read it. Just know what I've read from reporters and what I've seen on TV.

Not much to go on, but, do you actually believe what she is claiming is the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Hmm. Maybe not.

Ask Hillary Clinton, John Podesta, Huma Abedin and Robby Mook what they think about Brazile's depiction of the Clinton campaign. 

Tell all books can be filled with emotionally charged exaggerated stories that really don't honestly depict the real truth. It happens.

Brazile does seem to have bought into some of the Russian propaganda and Trump lies though. Some of her claims are not totally accurate. 

Maybe I'll read her book, maybe I won't...There are other issues right now that are more important to me. It's all fake news anyways...right? lol

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OKC ain't happy with the officiating this year for their new group of stars... Here's what they said last night...

 

"I just think they don't referee the same way all the time," Westbrook added. "They pick and choose when they want to do it, which is not fair, in my opinion. I've been in this league for a while, and I'm able to see it and understand it and see what's right or what's wrong, but I can see it's blatant, s--- that's not getting looked at, in my opinion. Get hit, you need to look at it. You look at everything else, you need to take a look at it."

 

"What's more concerning to me is our opponents have gotten to the free throw line 50 more times than we have," Donovan said. "And we've got a player in Russell who clearly, historically in this league, has gotten to the free throw line as much or if not more than anybody else in this league."

On Sunday, the Trail Blazers attempted 28 free throws to the Thunder's 15.  (DLillard attempted and made 15 himself...)

"We haven't been getting the benefit. Every night, we haven't been getting the benefit of the doubt," George said. "I don't know what it is, especially for Russ. He attacks the basket, and so many of his plays at the rim are questionable, and he's not getting the benefit of the doubt."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21309298/oklahoma-city-thunder-carmelo-anthony-puzzled-being-ejected-loss-portland-trail-blazers

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Looks like I'm not the only one who's recognizing this manipulation issue: 

 

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21324548/are-russell-westbrook-james-harden-nba-superstar-foul-chasers-suddenly-trouble

 

"With Harden and Westbrook joined by Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durantand LeBron James, it's a change that has affected some of the NBA's biggest names."

 

Are the NBA's superstar foul-chasers suddenly in trouble?

 

Russell Westbrook and James Harden have both seen their free throw attempts drop early this season. Mark D. Smith/USA TODAY Sports

7:26 AM CT
  • pelton_kevin.png&w=160&h=160&scale=crop
    Kevin PeltonESPN Staff Writer

When Carmelo Anthony was ejected from Sunday's Oklahoma City Thunderloss in Portland for elbowing Blazers center Jusuf Nurkic in the face while driving to the basket -- a play that was called a shooting foul on Nurkic before being overturned by replay review -- it caused the Thunder's frustration with referees to boil over.

Asked about Russell Westbrook's 2-for-7 shooting from the free throw line in the game, Oklahoma City coach Billy Donovan instead took the opportunity to vent about his team's free throw differential.ADVERTISEMENT

"What's more concerning to me is our opponents have gotten to the free throw line 50 more times than we have," Donovan said. "And we've got a player in Russell who clearly, historically in this league, has gotten to the free throw line as much or if not more than anybody else in this league."

"We haven't been getting the benefit," added Paul George. "Every night, we haven't been getting the benefit of the doubt. I don't know what it is, especially for Russ. He attacks the basket, and so many of his plays at the rim are questionable, and he's not getting the benefit of the doubt."

Those complaints cost Donovan and George $15,000 fines announced by the NBA on Wednesday, along with one for Westbrook. But do the Thunder have a legitimate gripe?


Fewer free throws for best at drawing fouls

Last season, Westbrook averaged 10.4 free throw attempts per game, second in the league behind former teammate James Harden of the Houston Rockets(10.9). Both players have seen their attempts decline dramatically this season. Harden is down to 7.9 attempts per game, while Westbrook's 5.6 represent a drop of more than 40 percent.

Even when we account for Westbrook's decreased role in the Oklahoma City offense, the percentage of his plays (shot attempts, trips to the free throw line or turnovers) that have resulted in free throws is down substantially. That gives him something in common with most other players who averaged at least six free throw attempts per game in 2016-17.

Beyond Harden and Westbrook, seven other players have seen their percentage of plays ending at the foul line decline by at least three percentage points in the early portion of 2017-18. While some of these can be explained by role changes (Jimmy Butler and Danilo Gallinari, for example, are spending more time in catch-and-shoot situations with new teams, as Kyle Lowry is despite staying put in Toronto), that's insufficient to explain all of the drop-offs.

Certainly, some regression to the mean should be expected for the leaders in any category, particularly over the small sample size of the season's first 10 games or so. But this decline is much larger than a similar group saw over the first 10 games of 2016-17. Then, the top 20 players in free throw attempts per game the previous season saw their free throw attempt rate fall by 0.6 percentage points -- less than a third as much as the 2.1 percentage-point decline so far for 2016-17 free throw attempt leaders.

With Harden and Westbrook joined by Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Durantand LeBron James, it's a change that has affected some of the NBA's biggest names.


Westbrook's cause for free throw decline unique

This season's emphasis on how to officiate continuation and contact on jump shots is an obvious explanation for the drop in free throw rate for stars. Before training camp, the NBA's "points of education" clarified that a jump shot should result in a shooting foul only if the player had begun the upward motion to shoot by the time the foul was called. (On a drive a player must only have gathered to shoot before illegal contact for a shooting foul.)

The change has been colloquially referred to as "the Harden rule," and indeed it appears to have cost him many of the free throws he got last season. Per Basketball-Reference.com, Harden has drawn six 3-shot fouls in 11 games after benefiting from a league-high 122 of them in 2016-17. That difference alone would account for 2.8 free throw attempts per game, nearly all of Harden's decline. (Of course, some of the fouls Harden draws beyond the arc will still result in two free throws if the Rockets are in the bonus.)

Instead, as George observed, Westbrook is drawing fewer fouls when he drives to the basket. According to data provided by Second Spectrum, 10.9 percent of Westbrook's drives last season resulted in shooting fouls. This year, that's down by nearly half to 8.0 percent of his drives.

That change can't necessarily be attributed to a different standard for continuation -- the league-wide shooting foul rate on drives has increased from 10.2 percent to 11.1 percent, via Second Spectrum data. And the shooting foul rate on drives for the group of players who averaged at least six free throw attempts per game last season has actually increased by the same amount.

Ultimately, we're talking about a handful of calls over the season's first nine games, so odds are the explanation is mostly random chance. (Based on last year's rate of shooting fouls drawn, you'd expect Westbrook to have drawn 14 of them on drives so far this season. He's actually drawn 10.) But it's understandable those missing calls would be frustrating to an Oklahoma City team that is still working to build chemistry after adding Anthony and George.

All six of the Thunder's losses have come by single-digits, three of them by four points or fewer. Westbrook getting back to the free throw line as often as he did last season might be enough to turn some of those close losses into Oklahoma City wins.

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NBA is trying to slow all this Giannis talk down it seems...

 

 

Milwaukee Bucks head coach Jason Kidd has been fined $15,000 for public criticism of officiating, NBA executive vice president of basketball operations Kiki VanDeWeghe announced Thursday.

The comments were made following the Bucks' 124-119 loss to the Cleveland Cavaliers on Tuesday at Quicken Loans Arena. Milwaukee was called for 31 personals compared to 18 for Cleveland, and the Cavaliers attempted 38 free throws.

 Kidd pointed out that over the past three games, opponents have tried 95 free throws to 40 for Milwaukee.
 
 

"I just got fined," Kidd said after the game Tuesday. "That's one way. The other way is by expressing to the officials and I did that the whole night. The different crews that we've had have been awful."

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One night after the Cavs receive the benefit of the whistles against the Bucks, and JKidd is fined because he complained publicly of the blatant manipulation at the free throw stripe that hurt his team, the League returns the favor to the Cavaliers on National television...

 

I know y'all don't care, but here's some math to smack you guys who can't smell the conspiracy in the face...

 

Cavs average 25 free throw attempts per night. Rockets average 23.

Cavs average 29 3point attempts per night. Rockets average 45.

 

Tonight the Rockets shot 46 3's to the Cavs 27 attempts from deep. Pretty average.

Tonight the Rockets shot 31 2point FG's to the Cavs  54- 2 pointers. Pretty one sided, yet normal...

 

Inexplicably, the Rockets shoot 36 free throws to the Cavs 14. Not normal...

They make 29 to the Cavs 11. Not average...

+18 points at the stripe and won by 4?, Not natural...

 

Harden, who's seen his FTR decline by a massive 20% this season and hasn't been getting the calls, gets to the line to go 13/14, while the Cavs entire teams goes 11/14.

Harden shot 21 total balls, 14 from behind the 3point line, and 7- 2 pointers...

 

The NBA's biggest star is aggressive enough to shoot 24 shots total, 20-2 pointers, just 4 shots from deep,and gets to the free throw line one time for a 2/2 trip.

He gets one other attempt there on an illegal defense call which he misses...3 total free throws in 40 minutes for a guy who stays in the paint...

 

Blatant. Flagrant. Manipulation. Every Night. For Entertainment Purposes.

 

 

 

 

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Maybe the refs just suck and are really inconsistent with the way they call fouls. I see it happen in almost every NBA game I watch.

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6 hours ago, Majestic said:

Maybe the refs just suck and are really inconsistent with the way they call fouls. I see it happen in almost every NBA game I watch.

 

That's exactly how they hope we feel. We as a viewing public let them off the hook with this mentality and it's pervasive. Everyone is apt to explain their inconsistencies away by saying the refs suck. It's not that simple IMO. And they're paid handsomely. Plus touted as the best of the best..So while some may just suck, like you say, others don't actually suck, they're doing exactly what they've been instructed to do;Control the action... We see it in many games because there's a goal of delivering the most favorable outcome in many games. Not every game, but many. Then we explain it away by saying, "Man, the refs suck!"

 

I'm obviously not alone here. The evidence seems to be mounting and journalists may be taking notice. Coaches and players know something fishy is in play, but there's no way to put your finger on it. And the minute teams start snooping around and making statements they silence you with a massive fine. It's not a fine for complaining. It's a fine for exposing the League itself to unwanted criticism and scrutiny. The perception of a fair competitive forum is paramount to viewers, but could prove to be a disaster for ratings if not controlled.

 

A lot of people fail to see the forest through the trees. I expect this, so the response to this thread isn't surprising. The NBA execs also expect this so it's a never ending debate of bad officials versus corrupt officials. It just becomes a moot point.

 

Games with results like the Cavs played in the last two, with opposite ending results, are difficult to explain away by happenstance or by saying refs suck. So every time I see any game come into question and coaches bring it to the public attention I'll file it here. In time the data will likely show a pattern that even the staunchest non-believers like yourself may question. I was hoping others might join in the endeavor to expose an aspect of the game many people are overlooking, but it seems I may have to go it alone. At least until the NBA shuts down this thread...

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6 hours ago, DWarner4 said:

That's exactly how they hope we feel.

 

It's hard not to feel that way...the refs actually do suck...a lot.

Even "IF" the NBA is corruptly manipulating games, the fact remains that bad calls are a plenty every night.

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