DWarner4

NBA MANIPULATION

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So I was watching the OKC/Denver game last night, and couldn't help but notice the amount of times Russell Westbrook went to the hole, was clearly contacted, fell to the floor, and did NOT get the call.  As a matter of fact he shot just 3 FTs all game (0-3).  As a matter of fact, OKC shot just 14 FTs all game.  Compared to Denver who shot 22 FTs.  OKC lost by 8 by the way. 

The Cavs lost by 4 to the Rockets in Houston last night, and in that game the Cavs shot just 14 FTs (LeBron was 2-3).

Meanwhile the Rockets shot 36 FTs (Harden 13-14).  Which kind of negates the idea that guys who are good at drawing fouls are being hated on.

There's definitely something strange about the FT differential that occurs in some of these games though.  These refs do suck for the most part in a lot of these games, but I could see an agenda being put in place to make games, especially games that involve "super teams" more competitive (just my opinion). 

For me, unless it becomes so glaring that it's impossible to ignore, as a fan I'm fine with the game right now.  There are at least 20 teams in the league that I'd pay to see (thank God for my Fire Stick), and despite what a lot of people think, I think the talent around the league has gotten a lot better.  That being said, I'd hate to think that my beloved NBA would do anything to compromise the integrity of the game by enforcing any kind of agenda that would effect the outcome of games...I'd probably still watch though.

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7 hours ago, TRIPLEA2TOOTSIES said:

So I was watching the OKC/Denver game last night, and couldn't help but notice the amount of times Russell Westbrook went to the hole, was clearly contacted, fell to the floor, and did NOT get the call.  As a matter of fact he shot just 3 FTs all game (0-3).  As a matter of fact, OKC shot just 14 FTs all game.  Compared to Denver who shot 22 FTs.  OKC lost by 8 by the way. 

The Cavs lost by 4 to the Rockets in Houston last night, and in that game the Cavs shot just 14 FTs (LeBron was 2-3).

Meanwhile the Rockets shot 36 FTs (Harden 13-14).  Which kind of negates the idea that guys who are good at drawing fouls are being hated on.

There's definitely something strange about the FT differential that occurs in some of these games though.  These refs do suck for the most part in a lot of these games, but I could see an agenda being put in place to make games, especially games that involve "super teams" more competitive (just my opinion). 

For me, unless it becomes so glaring that it's impossible to ignore, as a fan I'm fine with the game right now.  There are at least 20 teams in the league that I'd pay to see (thank God for my Fire Stick), and despite what a lot of people think, I think the talent around the league has gotten a lot better.  That being said, I'd hate to think that my beloved NBA would do anything to compromise the integrity of the game by enforcing any kind of agenda that would effect the outcome of games...I'd probably still watch though.

 

TripleA you're eyes are open now. No reason to close 'em.

 

As for the calls Harden was getting negating the theory, not so fast. 

 

One superstar in that game was more aggressive and clearly NOT getting calls like you noticed. The other was operating far from the paint and getting to the stripe frequently. In the end, on National TV, one guy looked good, the other not so much.  This was evident.

 

What wasn't evident, is the fact that Harden has been dealing with the same decrease in whistles. Don't let the 13/14 fool you...Remember, last year he was drawing a whistle on 58% of his attempts. This year it's down to a 38% clip. This one game won't get him back to where he was operating, and we'll likely see games in the near future where he can't buy a whistle and D'Antoni is complaining. But on this one night, that up and coming star shined brighter than the NBA's biggest star for the past decade. At least that's how it appeared...That's what was written...And that's what you call planning for the future.

 

For some reason a few nights earlier they allowed James easy trips while Giannis couldn't buy 'em. And both of their attempts are way down this year...

 

Maybe they're establishing a hierarchy, or are trying to push the more charismatic stars. Maybe they wan't to push a few more experienced guys now and then younger guys like Giannis later...Perhaps they target coaches in an attempt to make them look bad to aid in their removal like Earl Watson and maybe next TLue. When Miami won their first, there was some speculation discussed in the Donaghy piece that the league wasn't trying to see Avery Johnson beat Pat Riley, for whatever reason.

 

It's difficult to understand why they do what they do. It's just clear that they're doing something...

 

Again, ESPN just ran an article that broke down all the stars who don't seem to be getting whistles.

 

On a game by game basis the narrative needs to change to cater to desired outcomes. It takes a certain skill set to be able to go out there and follow a game plan whether you're a player or an official. The top officials are those who can follow the NBA's gameplan the closest and deliver the desired outcome in the most cases. Not the guys who make the most accurate calls. Or the players favorite guys. Not the refs who the coaches think are the best. It's the guys who have shown the balls to be able to go out there in an unfriendly environment and call outlandishly crazy calls with a perfectly straight face.

 

As a top NBA official, your conscience can't get in the way of you doing your job. Unfortunately, as fans, our conscience won't allow us to think anything funny is even happening. It's just bad referees, right?

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8 hours ago, TRIPLEA2TOOTSIES said:

The Cavs lost by 4 to the Rockets in Houston last night, and in that game the Cavs shot just 14 FTs (LeBron was 2-3).

 

I watched that game from beginning to end. The refs did not manipulate the outcome of that game imo. 

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Not sure if it has already been mentioned in this thread but I would like to point out that the new rule of 'contact on the perimeter before a shot attempt does not result in automatic free throws' has been playing a role in why many superstars have been getting to the line less this season thus far - mainly James Harden as he was a master at that particular craft.

 

We Heat fans have experienced this same 'success' many times too, as Dragic during last season became very efficient at drawing contact and jacking up a shot coming off of a screen, which resulted in an automatic trip to the free throw line. Heck, he tried to do the same last night in Utah coming off of a pick beyond the arc, but the new ruling resulted in the Heat taking the ball out of bounds as opposed to Goran shooting 3 free throw attempts. Had that happened prior to this season, it would have automatically lead to the charity stripe.

 

Many players last season and the years before did this and benefited greatly from it, and I believe some of the inefficiencies regarding the lopsidedness of free throw attempts between 2 teams during a game can be partially accredited to this new rule. There are some teams which received a larger proportion of their free throws from fouls on the perimeter, and they are the ones who are most affected by this rule change. 

 

As far as the league restricting the free throw attempts of certain players to make the games more competitive, I have to agree. It certainly does happen to an extent and the numbers are there to support the claim. Just think back to the big 3 era of the Miami Heat. After their finals loss to Dallas, there was a particular pact made by the Heat organization, mainly Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, to attack the rim more and settle less for 3 point shots. As a result, Wade the following season (the lockout year) seen his 3-point attempts decrease from 2.7 to 1.1. Yet, his free throw attempts also decreased from 8.6 per game to 6.1. In 2011, no.3 shot 36.6% of his field goal attempts from 0-3 feet away, and 19% of his attempts from 3-10 feet away. The following year, he shot 37% of his field goal attempts from 0-3 feet away and nearly 22% of his field goal attempts from 3-10 feet away. He was operating closer to the rim and yet he still shot 2 and a half free throws less per night. How does that happen?

 

The rules have always been inconsistent and you never know how the officiating will go night in and night out. However, it makes sense - from a business standpoint - to keep the games competitive as possible right until the final buzzer. Whether or not a jump shot falls or a layup attempt drops is uncontrollable by the NBA, but what they can control is the amount of free throw attempts a team receives. It may sound negligible, but restricting a superstar to 2 or 3 less free throws a night can make a difference in the competitiveness of games.

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13 hours ago, Majestic said:

 

I watched that game from beginning to end. The refs did not manipulate the outcome of that game imo. 

 

I really wasn't trying to say they did, I was just pointing out the disparity (or maybe just adding fuel to this fire:unsure:).

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17 hours ago, Majestic said:

 

I watched that game from beginning to end. The refs did not manipulate the outcome of that game imo. 

 

17 hours ago, Majestic said:

@DWarner4 Do you know or have you ever known an NBA official personally? Just curious.

 

 I watched the entire game as well and I saw the Cavs players look dumbfounded by whistles on multiple occasions. I also analyzed the math afterwards to verify if what I was seeing was questionable. Because math says it was highly unlikely for what occurred numerically to happen, I tend to believe that math.

 

Teams that shoot closer to the basket draw more fouls. Teams that shoot further out draw less. Period. And all the math quoted above backs up the assessment that something was likely amiss, IMO.

 

Don't personally know any current NBA refs from this uber-manipulated era,  but my brother in law played in the NBA and CBA and I had occasion to communicate with Tony Brothers on a couple occasions after contests. I have several NCAA officials as clients and it's an entirely different animal, as they admit. And knowing a particular NBA official wouldn't really do much for uncovering a conspiracy. My brother is a Full Bird Colonel in the Air Force and thinks 9-11 was all as they said it was. Ignorance is bliss... Donaghy uncovered much of the truth. Did you read his book? Like Phil Jackson and the federal prosecutor he worked with, I tend to believe his story.

 

You never answered my question though. Do you believe a plane crash can leave no debris?

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5 hours ago, carnageta said:

Not sure if it has already been mentioned in this thread but I would like to point out that the new rule of 'contact on the perimeter before a shot attempt does not result in automatic free throws' has been playing a role in why many superstars have been getting to the line less this season thus far - mainly James Harden as he was a master at that particular craft.

 

 

 

As far as the league restricting the free throw attempts of certain players to make the games more competitive, I have to agree. It certainly does happen to an extent and the numbers are there to support the claim. Just think back to the big 3 era of the Miami Heat. After their finals loss to Dallas, there was a particular pact made by the Heat organization, mainly Lebron James and Dwyane Wade, to attack the rim more and settle less for 3 point shots. As a result, Wade the following season (the lockout year) seen his 3-point attempts decrease from 2.7 to 1.1. Yet, his free throw attempts also decreased from 8.6 per game to 6.1. In 2011, no.3 shot 36.6% of his field goal attempts from 0-3 feet away, and 19% of his attempts from 3-10 feet away. The following year, he shot 37% of his field goal attempts from 0-3 feet away and nearly 22% of his field goal attempts from 3-10 feet away. He was operating closer to the rim and yet he still shot 2 and a half free throws less per night. How does that happen?

 

The rules have always been inconsistent and you never know how the officiating will go night in and night out. However, it makes sense - from a business standpoint - to keep the games competitive as possible right until the final buzzer. Whether or not a jump shot falls or a layup attempt drops is uncontrollable by the NBA, but what they can control is the amount of free throw attempts a team receives.

 

 

It may sound negligible, but restricting a superstar to 2 or 3 less free throws a night can make a difference in the competitiveness of games.

 

Carnageta like usual you're on top of it. The first part about the new rule that the NBA announced they'd be implementing is definitely playing a role. Not only in real time in some contests, but as an excuse mechanism the league created for fans when their favorite players aren't getting the whistles they had been. All of this is done in the name of transparency, but don't buy it. Just like the L2M report, it's all smoke and mirrors.

 

The second part here is a nice breakdown. How does that happen? Majestic. Writ. You basketball geniuses out there. How does it happen?

 

Last two parts? Bingo! Bingo!

Free throw attempts. It's simple. Majestic says they're just bad officials. Like 75% of the population believes. It's a simple one to pull over on viewers. I read every boxscore every night, and again in the morning. Have for years. I watch multiple games ever night, have for years. But how many people actually do that? That's why it's so easy to get over on us. Then the other group of us don't want to get our feelings hurt by admitting that it only makes sense for them to manipulate the product for increased revenue.

 

Again, take free throw attempts from a guy who uses them as a way to gain rhythm as a shooter, and it takes even more points in real time off the board than just eliminating the free throw itself does. It has a reverberation effect.

 

On top of that effect, players get their panties all up in a bunch when the whistle doesn't go their way, so the refs can take guys out of their element like that by as well.

We don't fully understand how the free throw line is used to maintain control over the product and games. It's similar to the holding call in football. And that's exactly how the league wants it.

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^^ ??  wrong thread?

 

Or is it possible that you've placed your post here because the Celts are also benefiting from officiating in the early season?

 

They are in 4th in free throws attempted while their opponents are 15th...Who do they have on that team that historically get to the stripe?

 

Considering they lost IT, who has always shown the knack for drawing contact and getting to the stripe, and last year with him, they were only the 15th best at getting to the stripe, it might be a bit extreme of a jump for them to be the 4th best at it this year. But hey, who cares about facts? And free throws can't matter that much...

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18 minutes ago, DWarner4 said:

^^ ??  wrong thread?

 

Yea...was posting on my iPhone and not paying attention to what thread I was in. 

Oops!

giphy.gif

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9 hours ago, Majestic said:

 

 

Think this may be something even more insidious I'm afraid.

 

KD's correct. The refs do what they want. But more than anything they do what the NBA wants. This recent power ploy has been about public posturing in my opinion.

 

LeBron on one day, the old Black superstar. Anthony Davis the next. The young black Superstar. And now KD. The apparent heir to James throne when he wants to give it up.

 

The message they're attempting to send is that the NBA controls it's (Black) Superstars-unlike the NFL.

 

There are NFL fans out there in limbo. There's too much discussion of politics intertwined in sports recently and it makes people uncomfortable. It was said that the inmates were running the penitentiary. The NFL viewership is down 6% this year and it's a 5 year trend that appears to have no change in sight. All this change is related to how Americans view their Black athletes.. And the NBA is taking preemptive measures to keep from falling into the same fate while they're experiencing historic gains. The message is clear.

 

It's too much to be coincidence for Bron and Davis to both have their first career ejections ever. But the message was sent. We check our players. Even the biggest superstars. For the NBA, which has been the most progressive sports league in the country, it's a unfortunate position to take.

 

A lot of casual fans and haters invite the NBA silencing the likes of James. I'm just disappointed that the NBA granted them their wishes...

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Well-known LeBron James supporter and First Things First on FS1 host Nick Wright has plenty of things to say in reaction to the Cleveland Cavaliers forward’s ejection during last Tuesday’s 108-97 win by the Cavs over the Miami Heat. Wright questioned referee Kane Fitzgerald’s thought process in sending James to the showers early, saying that the four-time MVP’s actions, while aggressive in nature, were not enough to warrant him getting an ejection, which was James’ first in his decorated career.

 

That, however, was just the preface for the crux of Nick Wright’s commentary, which was the idea that LeBron James is not getting enough calls from the game officials.

 

“LeBron is second in the league in shots within three feet of the basket, second in the league in points in the paint. The guy is behind Giannis, he’s averaging over nine free throws a game. LeBron is second in the league in points in the paint and 20th in the league in free throw attempts. LeBron is correct that he is officiated unfairly.

 

I know we focused on that he gets away with travels as he and James Harden and a lot of superstars do, but he is also dealing with some of the Shaq Rules that he has dealt with his whole career. This year, it’s actually affected his ability to get to the line, so I don’t blame him for being surprised about it.”

 

Although Wright has been oft-criticized by many for being an overzealous supporter of the Cavs star, he’s always made intelligible points backed with hard evidence such as this one.

 

To add to Wright’s point, it might be a bit surprising to learn that LeBron James doesn’t even lead his own team in free throw attempts per game. That distinction currently owned by Kevin Love.

 

Whether he gets the calls or not, however, James is expected to perform at the highest level on an almost nightly basis for the Cavs. He just hopes that the referees do the same.

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We got extremely creampie-rigged by the refs last season on certain occasions AND by the Brooklyn Nets who rested all their starters, when we were on the verge of a playoff spot,............................

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16 hours ago, DWarner4 said:

Well-known LeBron James supporter and First Things First on FS1 host Nick Wright has plenty of things to say in reaction to the Cleveland Cavaliers forward’s ejection during last Tuesday’s 108-97 win by the Cavs over the Miami Heat. Wright questioned referee Kane Fitzgerald’s thought process in sending James to the showers early, saying that the four-time MVP’s actions, while aggressive in nature, were not enough to warrant him getting an ejection, which was James’ first in his decorated career.

 

That, however, was just the preface for the crux of Nick Wright’s commentary, which was the idea that LeBron James is not getting enough calls from the game officials.

 

“LeBron is second in the league in shots within three feet of the basket, second in the league in points in the paint. The guy is behind Giannis, he’s averaging over nine free throws a game. LeBron is second in the league in points in the paint and 20th in the league in free throw attempts. LeBron is correct that he is officiated unfairly.

 

I know we focused on that he gets away with travels as he and James Harden and a lot of superstars do, but he is also dealing with some of the Shaq Rules that he has dealt with his whole career. This year, it’s actually affected his ability to get to the line, so I don’t blame him for being surprised about it.”

 

Although Wright has been oft-criticized by many for being an overzealous supporter of the Cavs star, he’s always made intelligible points backed with hard evidence such as this one.

 

To add to Wright’s point, it might be a bit surprising to learn that LeBron James doesn’t even lead his own team in free throw attempts per game. That distinction currently owned by Kevin Love.

 

Whether he gets the calls or not, however, James is expected to perform at the highest level on an almost nightly basis for the Cavs. He just hopes that the referees do the same.

Really? Nick Wright is in the realm of a Skip Bayless. In fact, I'd say they're very similar in terms of the arguments and comments they make to stir clicks and ratings. Credit to him for becoming one of the first in the media to take on the role as LeBron "super fan", since the LeBron super hater has been long drawn out and used for so long now, but when you look at the comments he's made about the Warriors, which include statements such as the "Warriors are better without KD", "Iggy is the worst rotational player in the league", "the Cavs will  "beat the Warriors in 5", Curry disparage, and much more, it's clear that his main objective is to serve as a troll. As for LeBron and his Free throws (or lack there of), he certainly does encounter his unfair fair of abuse from opposing players and refs, but we'd be dishonest to o not acknowledge that a player as physical as LeBron also plays a pivotal role in initiating contact.

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7 hours ago, Wadeflash06 said:

Really? Nick Wright is in the realm of a Skip Bayless. In fact, I'd say they're very similar in terms of the arguments and comments they make to stir clicks and ratings. Credit to him for becoming one of the first in the media to take on the role as LeBron "super fan", since the LeBron super hater has been long drawn out and used for so long now, but when you look at the comments he's made about the Warriors, which include statements such as the "Warriors are better without KD", "Iggy is the worst rotational player in the league", "the Cavs will  "beat the Warriors in 5", Curry disparage, and much more, it's clear that his main objective is to serve as a troll. As for LeBron and his Free throws (or lack there of), he certainly does encounter his unfair fair of abuse from opposing players and refs, but we'd be dishonest to o not acknowledge that a player as physical as LeBron also plays a pivotal role in initiating contact.

 

Within this quote, whoever wrote it, they mentioned Wrights position and overzealous approach. All television personalities use a little shock to get their ratings up and points across the air. The difference in Wright and Bayless, is that Wright, like above, actually provides mathematics to back up his opinions. Bayless rarely does. At least in regards to the topic of LeBron. It's all talking points from comment boards he's regurgitating.

 

The fact of the matter is that any player who is second in the league in points in the paint is getting fouled. A lot. The reduction is free throw looks for the leagues biggest cash cow ever is laughable really. But since nobody can see the forest through the trees the silliness continues.

 

I look at the explanation for James taking contact like this. I'm a small guy. 5'9" and Under 140. Played ball my whole life. When I go to the gym I play against guys who weigh over 200 on a regular basis. I train players who weigh up to 250. Over 100 pounds heavier than me, and current professionals. When we engage in 2 on 2's and 3 on 3's, I should clearly be able to foul them on every foray they take to the basket, right? Grab their arms, push 'em on the waist...I'm tiny in comparison and I'm not a pro, so they're better than me. If I foul it's incidental. Right? You think they feel that way?

 

Nobody wants to be touched. And when they are, it's what we call a foul. Regardless of the persons anatomy who's fouling, or being fouled.

 

And again, like Nick Wright illuminated and I've been laying out in this thread, there's a good deal of math that indicates something is fishy in regards to his handling. We can overlook the math. Just like Skip Bayless does...But it doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

And Skip gets paid to overlook the truth. What do we get out of it?

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1 hour ago, DWarner4 said:

And Skip gets paid to overlook the truth. What do we get out of it?

 

A headache and high blood pressure.

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